Talk:Sheerness

older entries

I am surprised that naval historians have not made more of Sheerness as one of the most famous mutinies happened at The Nore, which unhappily if memory served me right, affected the freshly reprovisioned Captain Bligh as well.

The mutiny by the Royal Navy at this point led to the question of establishing the basic charter of sailor's rights in the Royal Navy. Also somewhere was a reference where the Navy broke its word to the mutineers and hung the ringleaders despite promises not to.

Also the new Queensferry Bridge was a source of much merriment in the 1970's wwhen BBC TV's Frank Spencer was raised on that bridge for the long reigning comedy show "Some mother's do have 'em".

A mention of the long gone light railway between Sheerness and Leysdown may be useful.

Good Article pass

I have passed this article and am surprised it hasn't been done already - IMO this is a very well written article and my only concern is that there ought to be some more representative "typical street" type photos of the town. I haven't signed off on "stable" purely because there have been so many recent changes, but from the edit history I've no concerns since there's no sign of edit warring. I think the "History" section could usefully be broken into subsections, and the transport section could do with serious expansion (this is a major port, after all) but these are relatively minor concerns — iridescent (talk to me!) 16:20, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   a (fair representation): b (all significant views):

5. It is stable.

   

6. It contains images, where possible, to illustrate the topic.

   a (tagged and captioned): b (lack of images does not in itself exclude GA): c (non-free images have fair use rationales):

7. Overall:

   a Pass/Fail:

Suggestions for improvement

Will be giving this a copyedit as well; these are broader suggestions for fleshing out the actual content.

• The claim 'world's first multi-storey building with an iron frame' and 'the Sheerness Boat Store was the world's first multi-storey building with a rigid metal frame' should be cited.
• I would suggest replacing one of the two beach images with an image of the above referenced 'first multi-storey building' if available. The two beach images are very similar to one another.
• The phrase 'In 1863, mains water was installed in the town' is nonsensical to me as an American english speaker, as we would say 'water mains'. Is this a common British convention with which I am not familiar, or a mistake?
• Units of measurement should be standardized in their order of presentation across the article. There is inconsistency in presentation of the following units: "2 miles (3.2km)", "28 inches (711 mm)", "24.2 persons per hectare".

Maralia 19:04, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

• Thanks for your comments. I have added a citation for 'the Sheerness Boat Store was the world's first multi-storey building with a rigid metal frame'. I don't actually live in Sheerness so it might be difficult for me to get a free picture of the 'first multi-storey building'. 'Mains water' is an British English term. I'm not sure where the inconsistency is with the units of measurement. Epbr123 19:35, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
• Regarding units of measurement: In the values I listed, you gave primary place to miles, inches, and hectares. In an article about England, I would expect to see km, mm, and hectares, with the conversion values in parentheses. Correct me if I'm wrong, of course; I've had far too little sleep and too much coffee today.Maralia 19:57, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

The consensus among English editors is that imperial measurements should come first. England may officially now be a metric country, but most English people still prefer to use imperial. Epbr123 21:29, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

• The text of this article refers to it as having little rain and a sunny climate, which is not supported by the many photos, which show a rather gloomy and cloudy atmosphere. Perhaps the text should be adjusted to reflect reality? Or are these descriptions by comparison with nearby places that are slightly more gloomy? --72.75.40.134 18:22, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Re: Copyedit

Had a first look at this and it reads very well. References are excellent. Would be inclined to agree with Maralia about beach pictures, but I've had a look around and haven't seen an appropriate alternative yet. Will go back over again for CE. Sorry about the delay. Kateshortforbob 22:13, 15 July 2007 (UTC)kateshortforbob 2312, 15 July 2007 (GMT)

Samuel Pepys

In the introduction, it indicates that "...after a Dutch attack in 1692, Samuel Pepys, the Secretary to the Admiralty..." According to the S. Pepys Wikipedia entry, Pepys left government in 1688, lost his seat in Parliament in 1689, was imprisoned in 1690, and when released, retired from public life. So he could not have been Secretary to the Admiralty in 1692 or later.

The date of the Dutch attack mentioned in the introduction, 1692, does not agree with the first paragraph of the "History" section, which mentions a "1667 Dutch raid". Were there two attacks?

The History section says that after the 1667 Dutch raid, "the Secretary of the Admiralty, Samuel Pepys, subsequently ordered the construction of a naval dockyard..." I took this to mean that S. Pepys was the Secretary of the Admiralty when the raid took place, although I think it could mean that years later, when he became Sec. of the Admiralty (it was 1673) he so ordered the construction. In any case, he was not Sec. of the Admiralty in 1667--he was Clerk of the Acts to the Navy Board.

This is the first comment I have ever made. Thank you.A2taggart 17:10, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

• A vandal changed the date fron 1669 to 1692. According to the S. Pepys Wikipedia entry, he became Secretary of the Admiralty Commision in 1673; before which he was Secretary of the Admiralty. Epbr123 17:21, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Samuel Pepys (2)

18 August 1665 in his Diary , Pepys records that the plan for a dockyard at Sheerness to supplement the one at Chatham was measured out by three members of the Navy Board -- he (Clerk of the Acts of the Navy), Sir W. Batten (Surveyor of the Navy) and Sir J. Mennes (Comptroller of the Navy) -- who "walked up and down, laying out the ground to be taken in for a yard to lay provisions for cleaning and repairing of ships....which however the King is not at present in purse to do, though it were to be wished he were." [1] I infer that there was no connection -- certainly not causal -- between the raid on the Medway and the building of the royal yards, and will so edit the Sheerness article. Dadofsam (talk) 23:45, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Map and text do not agree

a) The map shows a penninsula, not an island. b) If the map is oriented North, then the dot is on the north east, not north west coast. Please clarify. Shir-El too 12:41, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

a) Sheerness is a town on the isle of Sheppy, i suppose its a peninsular at the end of the isle of Sheppy, but its an island.

b) See the Kent article about where the division between east and west Kent is, specifically Sheerness is in the diocese of Canterbury and the traditional division of east Kent, etc, etc **BUT** the "east coast" of Kent is considered to be the English channel (ie Thannet down to dungerness) rather than the north coast along the Thames estuary.

160.5.247.8 10:59, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Sheerness is on the northwest of the Isle of Sheppey. Sheppey is an island but the red dot is covering up the sea between the Isle and the Hoo Peninsula. Epbr123 17:00, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Appears that map has been updated allowing island to be seen. But when map is enlarged the label for Sheerness is lost. 2.97.32.211 (talk) 18:36, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

Car and fresh produce importer?

I didn't know what wiki links to put in the clause, "Sheerness is one of the United Kingdom's leading car and fresh produce importers" — is that "car" = automobile, or maybe "car produce" is a UK equivalent of US truck farm, which redirects to market gardening, or something else? D.Z. Dean 15:00, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

• It's car as in automobile. Epbr123 18:03, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Spoken version added

I have added a spoken version of this article; see the link above. Hassocks5489 (talk) 14:37, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Infobox image

Is there any chance of a static image being put into the infobox, akin to say Runcorn, Bath, Somerset, Wormshill or most of the other FA UK settlements? I don't see why the photo of the clock tower couldn't go in, but as it's an FA, I thought I best ask first! -- Jza84 · (talk) 21:28, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

• Done. Epbr123 (talk) 22:24, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Looks great! Thanks! -- Jza84 · (talk) 01:56, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

The Isle of Sheppey Academy

Would somebody please update the section on education - Cheyne Middle School and Danley Middle school no longer exist as The Isle of Sheppey Academy has taken over. I would add all of the information myself, but I have never edited something before on Wikipedia and do not fully understand it, and I am not the best with words - as you can probably see from the small entry I did successfully make after the current education content (I was quite proud I managed to do this! =D)

Anyway, if somebody would be good enough to do this, it would be greatly appreciated - I'm more than happy to help anybody if they need any information regarding the Academy. :)

94.194.122.49 (talk) 20:29, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

You did a great job with your edit. If you are unsure in future- drop me a note on my talk page- and I can check through to see if there are any obvious wikierrors. I will look for a reference for what you said, and add that to the page. Wikipedia is generally kind to newcomers- and you soon meet like minded editors that watch you back. The sharks tend to swim together! --ClemRutter (talk) 22:06, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

Dutch Captured Sheernees during Second Dutch War

A display at Upnor Castle mentions that the Dutch Captured Sheerness when they raided the Medway in Second Dutch War. How long did the capture Sheerness for, there is mention of a week? Is there any other information about how long the Dutch held Sheerness for after their landing in Kent? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.148.159.236 (talk) 08:30, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

There is more on this at Raid on the Medway. Sheerness was attacked on 10 June, long enough for the Dutch to subdue resistance and destroy the fort. The town was not actually physically invested by the Dutch, who did not plan an invasion, but they instead immediately pushed further up the Thames Medway to attack the main naval base at Chatham. Benea (talk) 21:37, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

...The Thames??? Wrong river!!! --ClemRutter (talk) 22:02, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, I'm reading a book which mentions the Thames, and wrote it while meaning to write Medway. Never try to do two things at once I suppose is the lesson. Benea (talk) 22:10, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-40175458

At Upnor Castle, it says that Sheerness was captured by the Dutch. This means Sheerness is one of the only places on the island of Great Britain to have been captured by foreign troops since the First Barons War? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.224.32.138 (talk) 13:10, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

Featured article status

It's a shame, but this article currently falls well short of the criteria for featured articles. There are numerous incorrectly formatted or dead external links, unsourced sections and paragraphs, unencyclopaedic language, dated statements, an a section of dubious weight and relevance to the overall article ('Tales of Beachfields Park'). A featured article review will doubtless produce a more thorough report. I'd be prepared to lend what assistance I could to reworking the article, but otherwise I don't see an alternative to downgrading the article. Benea (talk) 21:44, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Sheerness one of few places (apart from Channel Islands) in the UK captured by a foreign power in last 1000 years (aside from Barons War).

The Dutch version of events, on wikipedia more accurately reflects the information at Upnor Museum, that in fact the Dutch did capture Sheerness.

"The Dutch Marines" paid for their meals...etc

Sheerness was the hub of an attack by the Dutch navy in June 1667 , when 72 vessels during the Journey to Chatham forced the small fort to surrender. An occupying force came ashore; civilized behavior of the troops surprised the people of Sheerness: the Marines were paying for their meals. During the commemoration, 300 years later, the Dutch navy was therefore once again invited. Sheerness was also the venue for a royal shipyard .

https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheerness

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joe Blogs, 10th cntury playwrite.

New notables section

A few days ago I created a new section on notable people. I began it by transferring the details of five people from the end of the history section. I extended and expanded these five with about a dozen or so others from wikipedia. Contributor Roger 8 Roger has deleted most of the list, (bringing it down to just four) saying the list included uncited entries and conflicted with WP:LISTBIO

I am grateful for the reference to WP:LISTBIO. I have now re-visited my extended list and re-posted most (but not all) of them AND spelled out explicitly the association each of them has with Sheerness, usually that they were born there.

I hope users will now find the longer list informative, interesting and compliant.

ArbieP (talk) 09:45, 24 September 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for the message. The list is better but still too long. "...the entries must have the same importance to the subject as would be required for the entry to be included in the text of the article according to Wikipedia policies and guidelines (including WP:Trivia sections). Furthermore, every entry in any such list requires a reliable source attesting to the fact that the named person is a member of the listed group..." Would we write about Michael Crawford in the main body of the article? I doubt it. Each entry should have its own citation, not just a link to another wp article. Each description should really be a very brief description, eg Joe Bloggs, 19th century playwrite: he citation and link will provide the detail. Anyway, thanks for taking the time to re-post. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 10:16, 24 September 2017 (UTC)

Thank you for your comments. I take the drift of most of what you say. I've chopped out five with the weakest links with Sheerness, by which I mean that their notability was not directly attributable to life and times in Sheerness. I do struggle to remove Dr Beeching, as knowing where he comes from, tells me something (perhaps mistakenly) about his attitude to railways.

ArbieP (talk) 18:12, 24 September 2017 (UTC)

This is a featured article. Your material needs inline citations if it is to be incorporated. William Avery (talk) 21:40, 24 September 2017 (UTC)

GA-I think not

Following the discussion above- I looked at several sections.

• Education- Sheppey was not the only area in kent to have a three-tier system before 2009. It was the only area to have one on the 31st August 2009. The supporting reference is from 2005 accessed in 2007. See Cliffe Woods Middle School on the Hoo Peninsula.

This sentence does not make sense:

"Respectively, The Isle of Sheppey Academy now ranges from students of year 6 to 11, as well as housing the island's sixth form students"

• Media- the radio station lost its licence in 2016 according to the article. The notable people should still have references, and why include an amateur golfer who came second?
• Do we want to listen to a reading of a version of the article that is 9 years old?
• Transport. Sheerness-on-Sea railway station is on the Sheerness Line, run by the Southeastern rail company. - don't we need a 'which'. What about SSS to STP which is occasionally 1hr 20?
• Two of the principal photos are not straight and need editing- and the ones I took are of a poor quality. Mea culpa
• Culture - this reads like a copyvio- c&p from Swale Borough Council

A massive rewrite is needed- before we trigger a reassessment. ClemRutter (talk) 19:13, 24 September 2017 (UTC)

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FA in need of review

This article was promoted in 2007 and has never been reviewed since. Issues:

• The article is very dated:

• Demography is based off the 2001 census;
• "Data from the 2011 census is not yet available to give specific numbers." - Well, we are now closer to the 2021 census and this is still in the article;
• "As of October 2014 there were plans to reopen the plant as a rolling mill."
• "and in 2007 Sheerness' recently refurbished town centre had more than 200 shops."
• Economy is based off the 2001 census;
• " In 2006, the Cheyne Middle School's Key Stage 2 performance ranked 322nd among Kent's 386 primary and middle schools."

• "In July 2013 the island received some notoriety for an attack on a tour bus of Jewish boys by local youths who shouted epithets, and threw stones and eggs, telling the boys to "go back to where you came from!"" - This is sickening, but unless part of a broader problem, I don't think this isolated incident needs a mention on the article about the city;
• The Transport section is very poorly sourced;
• Verifiability issues:

• "Until September 2009, The Isle of Sheppey was the only area in Kent to still have a middle school system." - the source says nothing about September 2009;
• "Minster College in the neighbouring town of Minster was the only secondary school on the island. Sheerness had one middle school, Isle of sheppey Academy, with 800 pupils, although Danley Middle School and St George's Middle School were found in Halfway and Minster, respectively." - there's nothing about any of this in either ref. 61 or ref. 62 (closest ones in the text);
• The second paragraph in the Education section is not supported by the reference there;

• No one is maintaining this article (issues spotted in 2017 have not yet been addressed);
• Several unsourced sentences;
• Google tells me that Sheerness East is "Kent's most deprived neighbourhood". There's recent data that has to be in the article otherwise this fails FA criteria 1. b) comprehensiveness:

• https://www.kpho.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0009/58833/Swale-Profile.pdf
• https://www.kent.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0009/7956/Children-in-poverty.pdf
• https://www.kent.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/7953/Indices-of-Deprivation-headline-findings.pdf
• http://www.swalecvs.org.uk/files/1014/0292/5919/Overview_and_Socio-demographics_Swale_rev1_2013.pdf

• Is this blog a reliable source?

Article does not meet the FA criteria; if the above issues are not corrected, the article can be submitted to Featured article review.— Preceding unsigned comment added by RetiredDuke (talk • contribs) 14:48, November 11, 2020 (UTC)

I agree with the above points outlined by RetiredDuke, particularly that the article is outdated and there are uncited sentences. Minimal edits have been made to the article since this notice was placed. If you are interested in fixing up the article, please ping me and I can help with outlining concerns and conducting a copyedit. Z1720 (talk) 22:13, 1 August 2021 (UTC)