Talk:Shinola (retail company)

FTC

@Heartmusic678: Thanks again for your help above. I'd like to submit another request for this same "Made in America marketing" section, which is starting to look better but remains highly problematic. I'd like to propose a significant trim to the paragraph about the Federal Trade Commission (FTC). Currently, only the first sentence is sourced. The rest of the paragraph is unsourced and poorly written.

• This text is unsourced and unnecessarily detailed: "Today, some Ronda movements are labeled "Swiss Parts", meaning that most of the parts are made in Switzerland but assembled overseas. Such movements are nickel plated. Ronda movements assembled in Switzerland are gold plated and labeled "Swiss Made." Shinola movements are made of the same parts as the "Swiss Made" movements, but assembled in Detroit; they are gold plated. The dials, hands, cases, crystals, and buckles are manufactured overseas, as are such components of many "Swiss Made" brands, and Shinola claims the cases are made in the same facilities as many luxury "Swiss Made" watch cases are manufactured. The Ronda movements can be purchased by watch repair shops for $23 retail; however, it has been pointed out that Swiss Made ETA movements (used in many "Swiss Made" luxury watches) can also be purchased in bulk for around $20." I don't think the retail prices at watch repair shops are necessary for a company overview on Wikipedia. I propose removing.
• The next sentence ("Furthermore, while the standards for labeling a watch "American Made" is that nearly 100 percent of the parts must be physically fabricated in the US, the legal standard as of 2017 in Switzerland for "Swiss Made" is that no more than 40 percent of the "value" of the watch can be fabricated overseas.") is sourced to the Federation of the Swiss watch industry (the "Official website of the Swiss watch industry"?), which does not even mention Shinola. I suggest removing content which is (inappropriately sourced) unnecessary detail not about the company.
• The last sentence is also unsourced and unnecessary, not about Shinola ("it is unclear if the "40 percent of the value" limitation is particularly meaningful" ?)

This content was added by an unregistered editor back in 2018. I propose reducing this paragraph down to just the first sentence, or even removing the paragraph altogether because the "History" section already says, "Shinola's tagline was "Where American is Made", but that was abandoned after the Federal Trade Commission requested changes in certain marketing and labeling practices."

I am hoping User:Heartmusic678 and others can remove the text on my behalf. Thank you! JS at Shinola (talk) 17:49, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

Hi @JS at Shinola: This unsourced content has been removed. Thanks, Heartmusic678 (talk) 11:45, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

Gentrification

@Heartmusic678: Thanks again for your assistance and for updating the article. If you're willing to continue helping, I'd like to submit another request for the "Criticism" section. The "Gentrification controversy" subsection, same as the "Made in America marketing" subsection, is based on commentary by Madrock and Moy. I understand editors will decide how much detail to include here, but I'd like to at least identify some redundant text:  Done

• In the sentence "A New York Times article about the brand begins with Tom Kartsotis recalling the dire state of the Cass Corridor neighborhood", I suggest removing "Tom" and the link to his name since he is already mentioned multiple times within the article body.
• The paragraph also says, "Rebekah Modrak, who used the term "bougie crap" to describe the company, asserted that Shinola..." The "Made in America marketing" subsection already says, "In her article "Bougie Crap", for Infinite Mile, Professor Rebekah Modrak writes...", so I don't think there's a need to repeat her name and "bougie crap". I propose replacing with "Modrak asserted that Shinola..."
• Next, the paragraph says, "Others, like author of the article "On Shinola, Detroit's Misguided White Knight," have accused Shinola of disguising their furthering of gentrification in the city with claims of city pride. Jon Moy charges..." Moy was already introduced in the "Made in America marketing" subsection. I suggest replacing this text with "Moy has accused Shinola of disguising their furthering of gentrification in the city with claims of city pride. He charges..."

Also, I'd like to point out the presence of multiple sentences which present individual opinions as well-accepted summaries:

• "Some have criticized Shinola for its role in gentrification in Detroit and alleged exploitation of the city."  Done
• "Some hail the addition of Shinola in the area as economic growth and increased safety, but others argue has changed the cultural fabric of the area."  Done
• "Others take issue with Shinola's marketing, specifically their promotional video "Shinola - A Snapshot of Life in Detroit.""  Done
• There's also the sentence fragment "... which some have called capitalizing on Detroit’s poverty"  Not done. This is a continuation of a sentence separated by a citation.

Can these be removed so that the text is simply conveying what Madrok and Moy have written, instead of presenting these "summaries" by "some people" as well-established facts? Finally, I propose removing "controversy" from the heading name "Gentrification controversy". This section is criticism, sure, but there's no controversy being described. I will let editors decide if the headings are even necessary, since the two sections share similar sentiment and commentary by the same people. Thanks again to User:Heartmusic678 and others for reviewing my requests. JS at Shinola (talk) 21:32, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

@JS at Shinola: All but what you identified as a sentence fragment have been removed (see above). The content that was removed was either unsourced or poorly sourced per WP:NOYT (YouTube is not considered a reliable source). Thank you, Heartmusic678 (talk) 14:08, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

Watches

@Heartmusic678: Thanks again for your continued assistance, especially with addressing issues with the article's more sensitive content.

I've identified a couple inaccuracies within the "Watches" section:

• The second paragraph starts with "In October 2013, Shinola released their second limited edition watch..." I believe the watch was actually released in December. I propose changing "October" to "December", or if mentioning the month is not necessary, I propose removing "October" so the text says "In 2013, Shinola released..." If helpful for verification, here are some other sources from December: Los Angeles Times, Forbes, GQ
• Currently, the paragraph says, "The current watch in the series honors Motown legend, Smokey Robinson (2020)." This is not accurate. The most recent watch in the collection honors Jake Burton (2021), founder of Burton Snowboards. I propose folding mention of Smokey Robinson into the previous sentence: "The series has released subsequent watches honoring other Great Americans including Henry Ford (2014), Muhammad Ali (2015), Maya Angelou (2016), Jackie Robinson (2017), Statue of Liberty (2018), Minoru Yamasaki (2019), and Smokey Robinson (2020)."
  • Then, the text can be updated to mention Jake Burton. Avoiding use of "current", which may require further updating in the future, I propose the evergreen language: "The 2021 collection honors Jake Burton Carpenter, founder of Burton Snowboards."

References

• Finally, the section says "The company also produces a number of different watch styles on a non-limited edition basis, including The Birdy, The Gomelsky, The Runwell Chronograph, The Runwell Sport, The Runwell Sport Chrono and The Brakeman." The Detrola and Sea Creatures are missing. I propose adding them to the list ("The company also produces a number of different watch styles on a non-limited edition basis, including The Birdy, The Gomelsky, The Runwell Chronograph, The Runwell Sport, The Runwell Sport Chrono, The Detrola, Sea Creatures, and The Brakeman"), per Gear Patrol and JCK. Searching "Shinola" with "Detrola" or "Sea Creatures" will yield other sources if these are inadequate for any reason.

Thanks again for reviewing my requests to correct this article. JS at Shinola (talk) 22:12, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

@JS at Shinola: Hello, I am happy to help any time. Your request has been implemented, and the only source I did not include was for Gear Patrol because Wikipedia does not accept sponsored content. Thanks, Heartmusic678 (talk) 12:01, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

Introduction

@Heartmusic678: Thanks again for your assistance above! This article is looking much better and I appreciate your willingness to review proposed changes. With all of these edits to the article body now complete, I'd like to suggest some updates to the introduction as well. Specifically, I propose:

• changing "luxury goods retailer" to "lifestyle brand" to match the infobox
• updating the list of products, per Chief Executive
• clarifying wording re: Shinola's name
• correcting Bedrock Brands to Bedrock Group LP
• removing the inline citations at the end of the paragraph, per Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Lead_section#Citations

I propose replacing the current introduction with the following:

Shinola is an American lifestyle brand based in Detroit, Michigan. It produces and sells watches, bicycles, leather goods, clocks, home goods, and jewelry. Founded in 2011, Shinola takes its name from a common saying that harkens back to the defunct Shinola shoe polish company. The company was founded by Tom Kartsotis and is owned and operated by Texas-based investment group Bedrock Group LP.

References

The article body already verifies that Tom Kartsotis founded the company, which is owned by Bedrock. The citations are not needed but Caramanica's New York Times piece is used later in the article so I think the citation just needs to be moved down. My goal with this request is to correct and update wording based on above requests, and mirror the infobox. Thanks again for reviewing! JS at Shinola (talk) 21:10, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

Hi @JS at Shinola: This is done. Heartmusic678 (talk) 10:35, 14 March 2022 (UTC)