Talk:Shocker (character)

Clean-up

This page was in drastic need of being cleaned up. I restructured it, added some history, and removed some of the blatantly uncited/speculative passages (while I'm a great fan of the character, exactly where does the proof that he has a large fan base come from?).

Anyhow, I think it reads a lot better now, though if anyone has any suggestions?

Fan fiction

As much as I like the fanfic mentioned in the bio, it doesn't seem especially relevant - not to mention, referencing a fanfic seems like a very, very, very dangerous precedent. (If one is mentioned in a Shocker entry, why not more in Spider-man? Harry Potter? Who decides which fanfics get to be mentioned, and is it NPOV to say that one is well-written?) So I'm removing that last sentence. Tinderblast 21:15, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Being the one who created the fic's separate entry, I'm not going to do more than debate this topic here (changing the entry back would be pretty childish and trollish on my part,) but I do find your points genuinely invalid.

On the point of relevancy: the sentence immediately before makes note of the fact that Shocker is considered underrated by fans and has a large fanbase; I will assume you believe this to be true, since you didn't delete it. Large chunks of the article before that, especially at the beginning, point out Shocker as a second-rate villain who doesn't get much screen time. All of this added up suggests that it's perfectly logical to have that reference to TSL. It's saying "Look, fans of this thing that's popular but not used all that often in canon, here's something you can look at that has to do with what interests you."

On the point of it setting a dangerous precedent: How? Thing is, Spider-Man and Harry Potter already have a metric ton (if not more) of fanfiction written about them. You don't need to read their Wiki pages to know that Spider-Man and Harry Potter have lots of fan material; if you check ff.net, there are eight other stories in the Spidey category with more than 100, 000 words. The Harry Potter section has fifty-seven PAGES of material over that length.

Unless there's some hidden and very devoted base of Shocker authors out there, TSL is the only special thing the character has in terms of fanwork and the fan community. It's a nod to the point made in the sentence you left intact. It goes back to what I said in the first place about a large fanbase having a link to something that for other characters is a dime a dozen (long epic fanfics) but for this one, is something special. You wouldn't have fanfiction mentioned about more mainstream characters because there's simply too much of it; it would take up too much space before you even get to the topic of who decides quality.

I would say the logical solution is for pages with more mainstream characters to point to fanfiction archives where anyone interested in fanfiction can frolic in the sea of material (or perhaps even have separate pages with lists of well known fanfiction,) and pages for little characters should point to whatever happens to be out there (in this case, TSL) so the reader can immediatly be pointed to what they want.

As for quality control, I don't buy for one minute that this is any kind of problem. Saying it's a problem is the politically correct route of not offending anyone. Who are we worried about offending here, though? The droves of egotistical wannabe authors who not only can't write a straight sentence but put no effort into improving?

It's pretty obvious what makes good fanfiction and what doesn't when you use a little common sense; good characterization, spelling, grammar, punctuation, plot. Same as with a published work. TSL isn't perfect, and I even said that flat out on its page, but no one would look at it objectively and not tell you its leaps and bounds above 90% of fanfiction on the Internet. Even if they don't like it, you can't objectively deny that the quality of the actual writing is well, well above average.

I don't see any reason why there should be worry over offending people at what does and what doesn't get chosen. Any whiny brat trying to get their flagrant Mary Sue on Spider-Man's page would have it deleted by people with common sense about what makes a good story in five seconds flat. Again, the importance here is that this is a rarity for the character in question, and being a rarity, it has far more importance than the exact same thing would for Spider-Man. This should cover the "Well-written" idea strictly speaking about NPOV (again, "well-written" is not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of whether or not the author has a good enough grasp of syntax, grammar etc. to write well) although the sentence as a whole would probably have been better served actually stating why TSL is unique and why it's important in this context while a similar thing for a mainstream character wouldn't be important at all. --SSJ.Alhazred 23:57, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Thing is though that there would be absolutely no other valid reason not to link to fanfics on more obscure characters (and from there on, the bigger characters), whether they are bad or good. If you allow one fanfic mention, you allow them all. Really, even though Shocker: Legit is leaps and bounds over most fanfic, why not put up a link to another fanfic about the Shocker? There's no defendable basis not too. Kusonaga 21:03, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

That's pretty much it exactly - eventually, one would have to make a judgment call somewhere. It wouldn't necessarily be on the Shocker's page, but we really need to try and keep the standards of inclusion of material as universal as possible.

Kudos to the people who fleshed out this article, providing canonical explanation as to why Shocker is a popular character (and, one presumes, why the author of The Shocker: Legit chose to write their fic in the first place). Tinderblast 00:04, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Why is their a "Herman Shultz" page and a "Shocker" Page? I request a merge. 68.166.70.23 04:23, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Caption and Ultimate

Since the Shocker's picture show him blasting someone, should it not be mentioned who this someone is?

And I humbly request someone more familar with Ultimate Spiderman to work on the Ultimate section. Didn't the Shocker affect Ultimate Punisher? I -dimly- recall the Shocker's first case being news to a rapist, who wanted to use it to get out of jail and go after an almost-victim. The Punisher then kills the rapist. If this really happened, I think it includes mention.

Lots42 03:56, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Are you asking about the main picture at the top of the page for who he is blasting? Freak104 16:46, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Hand-gesture referenced?

I read somewhere that the "shocker" hand-gesture was referenced in the comics at some point. If anybody has it, could you please post the relevant panel?

Also, shouldn't there be something about how the Shocker was originally going to be called "the Vibrator" (because he has powers of vibration, not electricity, which is Electro's thing), until some editor realized...well, you know. Which is why he has a "V" on his belt to this day. No idea where I heard this from, unfortunately.

While I wouldn't put it past Stan Lee to not realize the double entendre he'd accidentally put in, it can't go into the article unless you can find a source. Notthegoatseguy 21:32, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

General Parvo

I knew it! I watched an episode of Spiderman: The Animated Series with Shocker in it, and I recognized his voice. He's the same guy who voiced General Parvo on Road Rovers.Ben 10 15:30, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Shockerthe.png

Image:Shockerthe.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 20:00, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

File:UltimateShocker.PNG Nominated for speedy Deletion

An image used in this article, File:UltimateShocker.PNG, has been nominated for speedy deletion for the following reason: Wikipedia files with no non-free use rationale as of 20 June 2012 What should I do? Don't panic; you should have time to contest the deletion (although please review deletion guidelines before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page. If the image is non-free then you may need to provide a fair use rationale If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale, then it cannot be uploaded or used. If the image has already been deleted you may want to try Deletion Review To take part in any discussion, or to review a more detailed deletion rationale please visit the relevant image page (File:UltimateShocker.PNG) This is Bot placed notification, another user has nominated/tagged the image --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 11:23, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Genius?

First of all, I don’t think it’s worth noting in the infobox that he has genius-level intelligence. If that is even true, he seems to be a pretty sub-par genius, not even anywhere near the likes of Doctor Octopus for example. This is such a common trait for comic book characters that I can’t see why we would want to list it that way for every character that just happens to be highly intelligent; show me a skill, not a trait. Also, we have no source for this information. If it was from some chart or graph then those are basically useless, and something like Marvel.com (aka the Marvel Wiki) then that is not a valid source either. Show me something from the comics, where it is explicitly stated that he is a genius. In fact, if it says something like "scientific genius" or "genius inventor" describing him in a comic, then I would rather see that in an infobox because it really tells me something about him. 129.33.19.254 (talk) 15:14, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

In his first appearance it says he is "good with tools" and has nothing about being a genius inventor. I agree that any comment about him being a "genius" or having a "genius-level intelligence" should not be included, because there is nothing to support those statements. Spidey104 01:26, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

He is an inventor for gods sake. At least allow that he is a skilled engineer. You just wasted my contributions, how in the hell am I supposed to contribute to this pathetic site if everything I do is deleted? — Preceding unsigned comment added by FictionFan2013 (talk • contribs) 13:06, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

Allow it based on your say so? No. That's original research, something Wikipedia does not do. - J Greb (talk) 23:19, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

You are allowed to contribute to Wikipedia if you follow the guidelines, so please calm down and try to contribute calmly and rationally. Saying he's an engineer implies a degree that he has never been confirmed to have. He is an inventor, but saying "highly skilled" is speculation and not allowed. Spidey104 01:20, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

Edit war

This edit war between 2601:d:9400:3cd and Crashsnake needs to stop. Both of you need to post your rationale for your edits here and have a civil debate between yourselves, with other editors chiming in their opinion. Spidey104 13:56, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

I am sorry for edit-warring, Spidey104. I did try to communicate with Crashsnake at User talk:Crashsnake#Edit warring, but he gave me no response at all, and in fact continued to edit war. I should have been the bigger man and stopped, so I am sorry. The issue was that he kept editing the TV characters section to say that "Shocker appeared in this series", when that was simply not true. The truth is that the character Montana appeared in the series first as Montana, then used the Shocker identity for a few episodes, then went back to being called Montana. That is what should be reflected here, that it was an identity briefly used by another character. I appeared to have come up with a wording here on January 15 that he can live with, as he finally stopped reverting me. I will not revert him any more, but I will please ask you to help me keep an eye on this article. 2601:D:9400:3CD:ECE2:DE9D:9FF9:DC99 (talk) 03:08, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Technically there is no rule on that we have to add plots on these anyways. I allow it half of the time. Especially if cite episode is used and is written as a fiction story. But Crashsnake might be getting out of hand on the fact that he wants to keep adding more plot. When being brief like this summary on here is fine enough. Jhenderson ⁷⁷⁷ 03:24, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

2601:d:9400:3cd, thank you for posting a response here. Crashsnake has a history of ignoring attempts to communicate with him. I support the current version, because it accurately and concisely presents the information as it relates to this character. He does seem to be leaving it alone for right now, so hopefully this war was settled before I made the original post. However, if he does make a change again without posting a comment here he could be blocked and we will definitely have to escalate this discussion to the Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring. Spidey104 15:16, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Image deletion nomination(s)

One or more images currently used in this article have been nominated for deletion as violations of the non-free content criteria (NFCC).

You can read more about what this means and why these files are being nominated for deletion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Comics#Image deletion nominations for NFCC 8 and 3a.

You can participate at the deletion discussion(s) at Wikipedia:Files for discussion/2020 April 26. If you are not familiar with NFCC-related deletion discussions, I recommend reading the post linked above first.

Sincerely, The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 03:55, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

Character image

I don't know where that image comes from in the info box, but it isn't Amazing Spider-Man #579. Clashwho (talk) 13:34, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

Ah, looks like it's the B cover, an alternate cover for #579.Clashwho (talk) 13:37, 5 December 2022 (UTC)