Talk:Shoes on the Danube Bank

Help translate

User:Tamas Szabo started this page on January 22. 2007

Please help to translate from hungarian sources and expand this page with your texts about a historic part of Budapest

Please do not delete facts or streamline at the beginning of edit time Tamas Szabo 11:16, 21 January 2007

Dates

Was Jacob Steiner's father shot in 1944 or 1945? -Yupik 08:47, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

On December 25, 1944 (he was not in the same house with his son) Tamas Szabo 05:04, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Conception

It is my understanding that the original concept for the monument is Gabor Deak's in Budapest. Can you please verify that? If Gabor is indeed the initiator he should be given credit. Important to establish date when the idea was first proposed and by whom.Emesz 22:12, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

I will try to find out. Tamas Szabo 05:04, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Is there a mistake here? The main Swedish house was in Ulloi Ut., but the house that people were marched from to the Danube was on Vadasz ut. From Battle For Budapest by Krisztian Ungvary p248 english translation: "On 7 January... Arrow Cross men attacked the 'Swedish House' in Vadasz Street, herded some 130 people to the Danube Embankment, and machine-gunned them." This is itself referenced to Hatar p918. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.120.131.169 (talk) 08:31, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

I've changed it, because I've checked and I believe I'm right and I don't know if anyone is still looking out for this page. Please go ahead and revert if you know better than me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.120.131.169 (talk) 08:34, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

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Rambling and self-contradictory

How can any Wikipedia article be so short yet so rambling and full of self contradictions? At the very least, there should be mention of when the monument was created. rowley (talk) 18:32, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

800 or 20,000

Was it 800 or 20,000 Jews? It cannot be both, yet the article gives both figures. 173.88.241.33 (talk) 03:26, 3 November 2018 (UTC)

Indeed, this is the chiefest of the contradictions I alluded to, above. rowley (talk) 04:57, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

Memorial

There are opening quotation marks at the beginning of the second sentence of the Memorial section but no corresponding closing marks. Mcljlm (talk) 01:24, 13 December 2019 (UTC)

Inconsistency

The article mentions a 2014 defacement of the monument in which several bronze shoes were stolen, though earlier in the article all of the shoes were described as being made of iron. — Preceding unsigned comment added by John Henry Sears (talk • contribs) 21:25, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

Multiple issues need to be addressed

Most of this conflicting information has already been mentioned on the talk page throughout the years. This includes:

• Are the shoes made of iron or bronze?
• 800 or 20,000 Jews? Should we make a distinction between shot into the river and shot along the river bank?
• Does the memorial honor the Jews shot into the Danube (as the lead states), or all 3,500 people shot into the river (as is suggested further down in the article)? Mooonswimmer 12:06, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

• The inscription on the plaque "dedicates the work to the memory of the victims shot by the Arrow Cross militiamen in 1944-1945...3,500 victims including 800 Jews". They were told to remove their shoes before being shot on the river bank, and dropped "lifeless" in the river. Says "bronze" in Cutcher, Alexander J. Lasczik (2017). "6. Place, memory: Budapest". Moving-With & Moving-Through Homelands, Languages & Memory: An Arts-based Walkography. Leiden: BRILL. p. 156. ISBN 978-94-6351-246-6.
• Says made of iron in Helphand, Kenneth I. (2019). "Being There While Here". SiteLINES: A Journal of Place. 14 (2): 9–11. ISSN 2572-0457. and in Kirchick, James (2017). "2. Hungary: democracy without democrats". The End of Europe: Dictators, Demagogues, and the Coming Dark Age. Yale University Press. p. 43. ISBN 978-0-300-22778-9.
• Says "bronzed" in Messenger, David A. (2020). "8. Finding the holocaust and Jewish history in contemporary Europe". War and Public Memory: Case Studies in Twentieth-Century Europe. Tuscaloosa: University of Alabama Press. p. 151. ISBN 978-0-8173-2044-7.
• I think they are made of iron and look bronze as they rust.[1] Whispyhistory (talk) 11:39, 6 April 2024 (UTC)