Talk:Shola Mos-Shogbamimu

Lacks even basic data

Eg her age and date of birth. What age did she enter university to graduate aged 19? She is apparently a USA qualified lawyer - when did she do that? To whom is she married? Which school did she attend? Nothing on early career. Rustygecko (talk) 02:26, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

@Rustygecko you'll be lucky 2A00:23C7:BF05:D401:E481:25A1:90BC:23A2 (talk) 23:52, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

She posted her birthday online here: https://twitter.com/SholaMos1/status/1723953368878494097

I can't see any other source for it, apart from IMDb. TrottieTrue (talk) 01:13, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

Also who are her parents who are wealthy Nigerians? Rustygecko (talk) 14:22, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

Better to ask who her grand father was... just don't mention any money made through things she now complains about... 2A02:C7C:BE8D:AC00:A06D:FD39:66A:3A1A (talk) 19:12, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

Also who are her parents who are wealthy Nigerians? Rustygecko (talk) 14:22, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

Ancestry

Why, in the day since it was removed, have four separate contributors restored the uncited alleged relationship to Legunsen III each time it has been removed subsequently? It seems suspicious that there are so many people invested in this particular point. If the relationship is factual, provide a reliable published source for it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.109.201.123 (talk) 09:38, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

And another, with no other edits: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/158.62.8.156 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.109.201.123 (talk) 11:23, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

Speaking of ancestry, who is or was Prince Ade Babington-Ashaye? Was 'Prince' a given name or a title of some kind? PortholePete (talk) 14:13, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Exactly. There's just basically no information out there, and no reliable sources EVER cited. Note how, the protection having ended recently, IMMEDIATELY the whole "Prince" thing is added again. This article needs a close eye kept on it/ permanent protection of some level; this lady's current high media profile seems somehow connected with this royalty narrative, to whatever end. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.109.205.41 (talk) 11:39, 22 April 2022 (UTC)

The thing is, I wasn't asking a rhetorical question.

I am interested to know whether this person had any connections with a royal family or not. A Google search shows up nothing reliable, but then again not every piece of information is available with a Google search. Has Shola herself ever gone into any detail about her father's lineage? PortholePete (talk) 20:02, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

Oh, I know full well that it wasn't rhetorical. Why should it have been? No better answer was, regrettably, within my power, as unfortunately no real information seems to be available in published sources. All that appears in Google Books, for example, is one or two mentions of "king of Ogere, the Ologere of Ogere- His Royal Highness Oba Babington Ashaye", which doesn't let us arrive at any meaningful conclusions aside from i) the article gives Mos-Shogbamimu's maiden name as "Babington-Ashaye" with no citation; ii) it seems rather unlikely (if, however, certainly not impossible) that Mos-Shogbamimu had the surname "Babington-Ashaye" but was entirely UNrelated to the aforementioned king. The problem is, the relationship is totally unclear even IF it's established by reliable sources that that was indeed her surname. She and the king might have shared an ancestor six generations back, without her actually being DESCENDED from the "royal family" itself, after all. (Feel free to ignore the following if you don't want to read it, just my thoughts:)

The fact is that as is usually the case these "royal families" are so obscure as to be more-or-less untraceable. These "kings" are more like Lords of the Manor. Take David Oyelowo, for example, whose grandfather was apparently "king" of "part of Oyo state called Awe"; even Oyelowo, per his article, says "It sounds way more impressive than it actually is. There are so many royal families in Africa"... "royal families are a dime a dozen in Nigeria"... "what we think of as royalty in the UK is very different to royalty in Nigeria: if you were to throw a stone there, you would hit about 30 princes. So it's a bit more like being the Prince of Islington". Basically I have no idea if this woman is "royal" (per the above standards) or not, and it doesn't seem like something one can easily find out. On the one hand, her saying it could be to self-aggrandise, on the other, people who take issue with her stances on race are using it as a "gotcha" when she talks about reparations, i.e. "your ancestors were royal and sold out their own people, so what reparations are you going to pay?" Unless it's firmly established, it seems undesirable to include it in the article either way. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.109.205.41 (talk) 12:43, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

Oh, and per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otunba_Fatai_Sowemimo - "He married Kehinde Sowemimo. They have three children. His wife is the grand-daughter of Late Monarch of Ogere-Remo, Oba Alfred Obafuwa Babington-Ashaye. Legunsen III, the Ologere of Ogere. She is the daughter of Prince Olumuyiwa Babington-Ashaye." Once again, no citation is given at all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.109.205.41 (talk) 12:46, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

Some details of the aforementioned king's family from an interview with his son, who states "My father married 15 wives. And in my family, there are 14 children – seven boys and seven girls." So whatever else factors in, the "royalty" is not really an exclusive status, it seems: http://ireporters247.blogspot.com/2013/08/i-listen-to-country-music-before-going.html

Also one more Google Books result giving an insight into his position- https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/The_Egbe_Omo_Oduduwa/p30uAQAAIAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=Legunsen+III&dq=Legunsen+III&printsec=frontcover - stating "In 1949, the people of Ogere and of Iperu in Ijebu-Remo rose against their traditional rulers. In Ogere, the people were demanding the removal of their Oba, Alfred Babington Obafuwa Asaye, Legunsen III, who was installed in 1945. Most of his chiefs and associate judges of the court, of which he was president, boycotted the court and decided that nobody in Ogere should engage in any act which might make it possible for him to pose or parade himself as their ruler." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.109.205.41 (talk) 12:53, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

Full name

This can be cited for her full name- middle name "Morenike" currently not in article- when the protection ends: http://nylawyer.nylj.com/nylawyer/exam/resultMay08/may08ac.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.109.205.41 (talk) 13:33, 22 April 2022 (UTC)

One-sided

Plenty of people have spoken critically of Shola Mos-Shogbamimu. Why is it only plaudits that are considered worthy of inclusion in the main article? They are hardly NPOV.PortholePete (talk) 13:49, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

Sources?

It'd be really nice to have some supporting sources for "Her grandfather, Oba Alfred Obafuwa Babington-Ashaye, was the Nigerian monarch of Ogere Remo", which cites her own website. Per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons#Self-published_sources, I'm not sure if the above quoted statement doesn't come under "1. it is not unduly self-serving" or "4. there is no reasonable doubt as to its authenticity". This only occurs to one due to the nature of Mos-Shogbamimu's media profile and generally, it has to be noted, rather self-aggrandising way of presenting herself (i.e. vague but boastful presentations of her academic background, shown in numerous interviews). There must be reliable sources, surely, with pedigrees of what is made out to be a fairly illustrious family? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.145.164.15 (talk) 14:17, 21 August 2022 (UTC)

Racist

Why is this being censored? This woman is a racist! She hates white people, and she admitted it multiple times. 45.237.49.5 (talk) 16:49, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

If there have been genuine, notable accusations of racism then they'll need to be corroborated by reliable sources. Removed content was not adequately supported by sources. — Czello 16:52, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

Why no criticism section?

She's a controversial and socially divisive character, and there's doubtless plenty of legitimate criticism of her stance and actions. Shouldn't it be expressed in the article? 86.14.43.73 (talk) 10:54, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

Criticism sections are best avoided but coverage of genuine and notable criticism can be included so long as it is directly supported by reliable sources without any original research or synthesis. What we do not need to do is detail the petulant kvetchings of a bunch of people who just really hate to hear a black woman have opinions. So I have to ask, is there any actual proof that she really is a "controversial and socially divisive character"? All that I have ever heard against her was racially motivated abuse. Maybe the loud-mouthed neo-Nazis are drowning out some more genuine criticisms with their racist nonsense? If so, and if anybody can find it, then that might be possible to include in a proportionate way but what we will never do is turn this article into the hit piece that the racists want it to be. DanielRigal (talk) 11:43, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

Yes, I agree. She is divisive, and has quite a bad reputation. I think a "criticism" section is warranted. TrottieTrue (talk) 14:05, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

I think her "bad reputation" is just that her haters like to trash talk her but if you have any genuine WP:RS coverage of non-trivial criticism then that can be added into the article. I don't think it needs a separate section. Our policy (see above) is to avoid those as much as possible. DanielRigal (talk) 18:17, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

Zionist smears - Role as Commentator

There are 4 new paragraphs added to this section about Israel that are smears by Zionists as a character assassination of Dr Shola accusing her of antisemitism. She is one of many prominent Pro-Palestine advocates who are being targeted by Zionists. There are no sources to evidence she is antisemitic or arrested/questioned by Police for such. Surely it is inconsistent with Wikipedia policy to platform haters writing defamatory smears on those profiled.

I think these 4 paragraphs should be removed in their entirety as it is accessed by millions worldwide. This isn't the fist time haters of Dr Shola have attempted to malign her on Wikipedia but I note that those contents were removed. These should also be removed. 81.103.166.58 (talk) 22:23, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

This should be removed - it's a smear to assassinate Dr Shola's character accusing her of antisemitism. Being anti-genocide and anti-zionist is not antisemitism.

Mos-Shogbamimu has drawn criticism for her remarks about Israel during the country's war against Hamas. In February 2024, the family of the Sage co-founder David Goldman withdrew their support from Newcastle University, following tweets by Mos-Shogbamimu the day before the university awarded her an honorary doctorate for her contributions to race equality and combatting discrimination. His family had launched the David Goldman endowment at the university's Business School in 2001, but ended its links with the institution after they chose not to take action over the tweets, which the family described as antisemitic. Mos-Shogbamimu had written on X: "I condemn the State of Israel with every fibre of my being, What is coming out of Gaza is incomprehensible. Scale of evil Israel is perpetrating against Palestinians is staggering. We must never forgive Israel for this. Just like Nazi Germany, one day justice will be served on it."

The Goldman family's endowment had supported an academic Chair in Innovation and Enterprise, PhD students, 19 visiting professorships, and teaching resources named the David Goldman Teaching Cases. Goldman's son Daniel said: "It has been a very successful relationship for us, obviously focused mainly around the chair itself. In addition to the chair itself there is a series of visiting professors, also under the Goldman name. The university decided to honour Dr Shola Mos-Shogbamimu with an honorary doctorate of law for her work on racism. The day before the degree ceremony she tweeted out that basically Israel is like Nazi Germany - the first of a series of aggressive and antisemitic tweets, including attacking the Auschwitz Museum and again comparing Israel to Nazi Germany in 'honor' of International Holocaust Memorial Day." He added, "Two months later and after a meeting of the Senate of the university they have decided to take no action...We, the Goldman family, have now decided to withdraw our name from Newcastle University. We are doing so because of the inaction of the university following her repeated and aggressive comments."

Writing on X in October 2024, Mos-Shogbamimu rebuked prime minister Sir Keir Starmer for his commitment to keeping Holocaust education on the school curriculum, saying "Why is it a National Ambition for Nazi Holocaust of White Jewish people to be 'critical part of every British student's identity' but not the Transatlantic Slave trade of Africans, Holocaust/Genocide/Ethnic Cleansing of Black people, Erasure of Black History, Colonisation & ongoing systemic racism, dehumanisation? White Supremacy. Why does Keir Starmer say Holocaust of Jews must never be repeated but arms & supports the Holocaust of Palestinians by Israel? White Supremacy." She described Starmer as a "Zionist Political Prostitute who will trade the lives, liberties & livelihoods of Black & Brown people in a heartbeat". Foreign Secretary David Lammy, who had previously provided an endorsement of her book, distanced himself from Mos-Shogbamimu's comments.

The same month, she stated on X, "Israel is a shit stain on the human race. That's the tweet." Following a "wave of backlash" online, she stood by her comment: "I. Stand By. Every. Word." Referring to "the monstrous evil apartheid terrorist state of Israel", Mos-Shogbamimu wrote, "I unapologetically and unequivocally stand with the Palestinians, a persecuted minority, who Israel is committing a holocaust against." 81.103.166.58 (talk) 22:32, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

What's the issue here? We're reporting on how she was described/criticised in relation to her comments. This isn't a "smear". — Czello ^(music) 08:47, 6 November 2024 (UTC)