Talk:Shpëtim Hasani

International for...Albania?

Can someone please provide a source for the national-team stats where it says that he has played 2 matches for the NT of Albania. I know he has been part of Kosovo NT, but I can´t find a single one that he neither was part, neither played for Albania. Does anyone? FkpCascais (talk) 00:20, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Compromise

Briefly resumed, the situation is the following: User:Evlekis and others insist on having on every Kosovar/FYROM Albanian's page, the Serbo-Croatian spelling of his/her name. I'm not against this practice [1], but with one condition: That Kosovar Serbian people too should have an Albanian spelling, for the greater benefit of the Kosovars, since the Albanian language was also official in Kosovo. Some user [2] objected, and Evlekis did not voice any concerns, as I recall. Evlekis does not have an issue with me, but with his fellow Serbian (or Slavic) users. He better address them, or suppress his Yugo-nostalgia. User:Evlekis states, and I quote "People, places and even events can have their titles in as many languages as needed." So, we can put the Albanian spelling of every Serb born in Kosovo. I don't see any problem with that. Last but not least, Albanians are kind of allergic to everything Serbian, as you may have noticed.Majuru (talk) 16:16, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

All right, a few points concerning the above paragraph. I consider myself pro-information as opposed to against. Sadly, I do not have enough knowledge on the Ottoman Empire to know whether the languages were autonomous and was every citizen compelled to speak Turkish. All four of my maternal great-grandparents were born in the Ottoman Empire albeit in its last years but from what I can gather, they never spoke or wrote Turkish - and yes Turkish was in the Arabic script then so all names would have been adopted. I wasn't opposed to ethnic Serbs from Kosovo having their names in Albanian but there were users who dismissed the idea as laughable and the basis was that the Albanian language status was a form of appeasement and anyone opting it as their first language had rights of education up to sixth grade - after which Serbo-Croat became compulsory - and the language was allowed for state broadcast. This is something in contrast to the status of Slovene in Slovenia which was the sole language except in the military (drawn from the whole nation anyhow). So Albanian in Kosovo was a nationally recognised language, and it represented the majority, but it was not the all-out language. To that end, the existence of Serbo-Croatian spellings for non-Slavic subjects is unequivocal; Albanian spellings for non-Albanian subjects were never used by the non-Albanians. Two good examples would be Artim Šakiri (Albanian from Macedonia) and Albert Nađ (Hungarian from Serbia), they not only have Slavic names but their Slavic names outweigh their ethnic names because of the system in the respective Yugoslav republics in which they were born. Persons born in Kosovo would not have had notability representing their country (Yugoslavia or successors) with their Albanian-spelling name. This leads us to the next stage: the wider picture. Majuru has presented the following statement: Albanians are kind of allergic to everything Serbian, as you may have noticed. I don't even know if I should take this comment seriously. Should we move Preševo to Presheva and exclude the Serbian name based on the majority population's "allergy"? First of all, that comment is POV and politically fuelled. There are mixed marriages in Kosovo and I - for all my "Yugo-nostalgia" of which I am accused - have some very good Albanian friends from in and out of Kosovo. The language we use is Serbian, my Albanian - for all my efforts - is not good enough for conversation. And when singer Ceca played the free concert in Niš, many Albanians had travelled from Kosovo to watch and enjoy. Hardly an allergy. Be that as it may, that cannot seriously be taken as an argument not to have the names. The question is whether there is need. The only way to address that is to explore further. Prior to my addition of the Chechnyam name, Ramzan Kadyrov only had his translation in Russian, see here. Sándor Páll and all other Hungarians from Vojvodina sit comfortably with their Serbian spellings, and remember, from 1943 to 1999, Kosovo was NOTHING that Vojvodina wasn't. Now does any user suggest removing the Russian and Serbian names of the latter instances? If so, why? Concerning my "Yugo-nostalgia", I would ask anybody reading this post to consider this very recent comment delivered to User:WhiteWriter. Consensus on Kosovan subjects has actually been reached in the past and they have it fair compared to some - and all because of the "Serbian allergy".

1) Persons born in Post-WWII Kosovo up to 1990 (when autonomy was reduced) are NOT given in Serbian but Serbo-Croat to play down Serbian influence. They also have Latinic only because of the alleged "absence of Cyrillic in Kosovo". If this is not original research, please tell me what is. Nevertheless, it is a concession that was made for Albanian editors whilst everywhere else in Serbia, there is Serbian Cyrillic. Furthermore, Serbo-Croat has two scripts, Cyrillic being the other; to that end, if and when an editor does wish to add Cyrillic here, he is acting properly.

2) Not ALL persons born in Serbia have their names in a Slavic (or Serbian Cyrillic) format. If they were only born there, it is not necessary. Goran Karan was born in Belgrade but is not one of the Croats in Serbia. Also, Rita Ora was born in Priština in 1990 and moved to the UK within weeks of birth; she doesn't have her name in any Slavic form either. If a fair chunk of their lives (such as childhood and educational beginning) has been in a former Yugoslav republic, then the translation is necessary. By the same token, Emina Çunmulaj was born in the U.S. but grew up in Montenegro, so a Montenegrin name is surely applicable.

3) If a person is born in Slovenia or Croatia, their Latinic-only languages mean that foreign names are accepted and adopted even for literary purposes and likewise, no Slavic names would generally be added for persons born there. This is consistent with other Latinic-writing Slavic countries with their policies on minorities (eg. Zsolt Németh (footballer) - Hungarian from Slovakia). When Cyrillic is used (primary or secondary), there is no code-switching.

This is how things have been until now. Anybody wishing to challenge the practice is free to do so. Evlekis (Евлекис) (argue) 17:12, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

I'm not against rules per se, but these rules have to be respected by all, not just by some. I especially don't like double standards. Didn't anyone think that adding SC spelling would be a controversial move? By the way, you are getting out of the way with all that Ceca-Ramzan Kadyrov/Preshevo valley discussion. Let's narrow it to Kosovar Albanian nomenclature. Like Kosovar Albanian footballers, businessmen etc. Majuru (talk) 16:09, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Well Mujuru!! I am not the one "narrowing things down"!!!! The only controversial thing about having Serbo-Croat is that it should really be Serbian because that is how it is with everyone else born there. Speaking of narrowing down, what exactly makes Kosovar Albnanias different from Ramzan Kadyrov (Chehcen from Russia)? Or Kaliopi (Aromanian from Macedonia)? Or even Magdolna Rúzsa (Hungarian from Vojvodina)? Once you've produced an argument for what makes Albanians of Kosovo different from the above bunch then we can look at modifying things. Evlekis (Евлекис) (argue) 19:09, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Something discovered

I have just located one part of the conversation where we agreed to switch Serbian for Serbo-Croat and have Latinic only. It goes back to February 2007[3]. The consensus was reached with User:NOAH who, like Majuru, was opposed to Serbian Cyrillic used on Kosovar Albanian subjects. He did agree to this but that is to be found on my talk, those days we exchanged notes on the other's page. Obviously it didn't follow through that I wiped the board clean by playing with all Serbian-born subjects and I can't remember why, I think I got stuck on the Kosovan articles and then forgot the rest. But as everyone can see, the others have caused no problem for any editor. Evlekis (Евлекис) (argue) 19:20, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Conversations on the matter: [4], [5]; also on having alternative names on footnotes discussed here and inially demonstrated here. Evlekis (Евлекис) (argue) 18:31, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

Summary for original discussions

Either of two slightly contrasting solutions were reached. Place a Latinic-only section for persons whose lives were mostly in Kosovo 1946-1990 by the name in the lead or summarise all details in footnote. No discussion has yet produced so much as a half-decent argument as to why Slavic names should be excluded but I am more inclined towards the footnote solution because it does not disrupt the lead. Also, the "Latinic only" was unsustainable because editors several times added Cyrillic and did this rightly so when the language had two scripts. Evlekis (Евлекис) (argue) 18:56, 15 July 2012 (UTC)