Talk:Sinai (disambiguation)

Primary topic

@The Banner: I explained clearly in my edit comment. Please comment on that to explain your reversion. Onceinawhile (talk) 13:20, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

Plus a search for Sinai on googlebooks shows a mix between mountain and peninsula.

Do you have any evidence to support a clear primary topic?

Onceinawhile (talk) 13:23, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

What do you think of the number of links? Both the number of views and the number of Google hits are irrelevant. Please read WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. The Banner talk 13:29, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

We have both edited this encyclopaedia for a long time. wp:DETERMINEPRIMARY suggests three ways of looking at this:

(1) Links: A real mix. Peninsula has 3000, Mount has 1000 and Biblical Mount has 700

(2) Views: Peninsula has 23k, Mount has 29k and Biblical Mount has 19k

(3) Google Ngams [1] and Googlebooks (shows a real mix)

Onceinawhile (talk) 20:12, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

Effectively, you broke 630 links on Wikipedia. The Banner talk 20:56, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

@The Banner: this conversation has established that there is no clear primary topic. I am happy to wait if you need more time, but in the absence of any evidence suggesting that there is a clear primary topic, this page will be moved back to redirect to disambiguation. Onceinawhile (talk) 23:26, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

By the way, WP:DETERMINEPRIMARY suggest not three but four ways to determine a primary link. The one you skipped is the one relevant here: Incoming wikilinks from Special:WhatLinksHere. The Banner talk 04:05, 15 August 2019 (UTC)

Sinai Peninsula is linked from more than 3000 pages, Mount Sinai is linked from a bit more than 1500 pages. So there is a clear primary topic: the peninsula. The Banner talk 04:15, 15 August 2019 (UTC)

@The Banner: please read my 14 Aug 20:12 comment again. Look at point (1). I have bolded it to make it easier to see that you just accused me of skipping something that I explicitly included as my first point.

Nowhere does DETERMINEPRIMARY say that one criteria is more relevant than the others. We must look at all the facts in the round; two of the three show Mount as primary, one shows Peninsula as primary. The obvious conclusion is that there is no primary topic.

Onceinawhile (talk) 06:20, 15 August 2019 (UTC)

What do you not understand from Incoming wikilinks from Special:WhatLinksHere the criterium you skipped so conveniently? That is a completely valid way to determine a a primary topic. Do you really want to deliberately break hundreds of links? The Banner talk 08:28, 15 August 2019 (UTC)

The criteria is there to help judge primary topic. It is not about breaking links, which is easily fixable (I have just done so, so that no articles now link to this redirect page). Nor does links to a redirect tell you much, because many editors will link to shorter redirects that are pointing to their intended target, so it is natural that links to a redirect will skew to the target they have historically had.

The correct interpretation of this criteria for determining primary topic is shown as point (1) above.

Onceinawhile (talk) 11:56, 15 August 2019 (UTC)

I have requested the input of others, as you seem to deliberately ignore an option to determine a primary topic. The Banner talk 17:13, 15 August 2019 (UTC)

To go on: one of the people I have asked for advice assumed that the move is controversial. He suggested that you start a discussion at Wikipedia:Requested moves with the proposal to move Sinai (disambiguation) to Sinai. That gives the community some input in the case. I hope you can agree with that suggestion and action. The Banner talk 18:41, 15 August 2019 (UTC)

@The Banner: could you please set out your point of view clearly?

• What do you consider the primary topic to be and on what evidence?
• What is your response to the evidence supporting the alternative view?

I have found this discussion suboptimal because your communication been terse and combative. Onceinawhile (talk) 20:53, 15 August 2019 (UTC)

As I said before: What do you not understand from Incoming wikilinks from Special:WhatLinksHere the criterium you skipped so conveniently? That is a completely valid way to determine a a primary topic. The Banner talk 21:51, 15 August 2019 (UTC)

• Onceinawhile, I was the user who suggested to The Banner that a move request would be helpful. Even if there is no primary topic, the title Sinai still should not be redirected to a disambiguation page. Instead, the correct solution would be to move the disambiguation page to that title. So a move request is a good idea for technical reasons, as well as giving other users the opportunity to consider the evidence you are presenting. --R'n'B (call me Russ) 21:18, 15 August 2019 (UTC)

Thanks R'n'B. I will wait to see The Banner's response to my questions above before deciding how to proceed. Onceinawhile (talk) 21:36, 15 August 2019 (UTC)

I will await the outcome of the request at Wikipedia:Requested moves. The Banner talk 21:51, 15 August 2019 (UTC)

So far as I can see, there has as yet been no notification of this discussion at WP:RM. As an uninvolved editor, I would be happy to post one if asked. Narky Blert (talk) 19:24, 16 August 2019 (UTC)

Please do so. The Banner talk 21:21, 16 August 2019 (UTC)

I have posted at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2019 August 17; this is a matter for WP:RFD not WP:RM. Narky Blert (talk) 06:11, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

• Redirect to disambiguation page. There is no discussion at WP:RM, and I agree the correct place is here or WP:RFD. In any case, since there is no singular target, this should redirect to the disambiguation page. Debresser (talk) 17:55, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
  • And then you have 600+ links to disambiguation pages. The Banner talk 18:14, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
    • That links to DAB pages will have to be fixed is not an argument. The question is: is or is not the change justified? A colleague fixed 65,000 links (that is not a misprint) in the New York Wars. If it needs doing, it needs doing. Narky Blert (talk) 19:38, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

See Talk:Sinai#Requested move 17 August 2019 Onceinawhile (talk) 22:28, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

That post is a WP:DISCUSSFORK. Please keep all discussion about one issue in one thread. Narky Blert (talk) 04:00, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

WP:DISCUSSFORK: "It is sometimes useful to relocate a discussion to a more appropriate page..." Close this discussion if necessary and deal with the move request. PC78 (talk) 09:09, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Sinai (disambiguation) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 22:31, 17 August 2019 (UTC)