Talk:Siouxsie and the Banshees

RfC: Should Siouxsie be listed as the main reason the band is influential?

Regarding the first paragraph describing the band as influential, should Siouxsie's influence be listed as the first reason for the band's fame? The following text is suggested:

• Frontwoman Sioux has been called a "style icon", inspiring gothic fashion with her appearance, and the gothic rock genre with her musicianship. Cited to Goddard in this edit. If the answer is no, the band is represented as influential based on its guitarists. Binksternet (talk) 15:16, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

Discussion

• Siouxsie first as it's her name on the band, her fashion style that was so widely emulated, her vocal style that imprinted the band's sound. She is listed as the frontwoman of the band by many media observers. Let's not erase Siouxsie from her own band. Binksternet (talk) 15:16, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

  Comment It's a bit overwrought to say Siouxsie is being erased here. The current lede seems fine to me. Possibly further mention of Siouxsie's contributions could be added, but the idea that she inspired "the gothic rock genre with her musicianship" isn't supported by the cited reference (and I doubt it's supportable). Also, the band isn't primarily notable for her fashion style. CAVincent (talk) 17:56, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

  Siouxsie Sioux is simply not the main reason that the Banshees were influential. I say this as someone who had posters of Siouxsie on my bedroom wall as an 80s teenager. The article without your repeated insertion covers her importance and contributions perfectly well. No one is marginalizing or erasing her. CAVincent (talk) 06:07, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

Image

Should we change the header image to one of the band in a different iteration?

I think most critics and commentators would agree that as influential as the original lineup was in the birth of post punk, it was the 1980-82 era with John McGeoch and Budgie that garnered the most popular acclaim and widespread influence (see recent McGeoch biography, 2022 as a source for this). In addition, Budgie was the longest serving member of the band after Sioux and Severin and he is almost synonymous with the band's image and reputation - see the bands Spotify page for instance.

Shall we propose a new, clearer image of the band featuring these two? 81.110.11.76 (talk) 23:13, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Lead paragraph

There was some conflict about what accolades deserved to be mention in the lead paragraph of this band's page. I think I've produced a very reasonable, balanced, and definitely-not-hagiographic-or-fanatically-overstuffed solution to the problem, with attention to avoiding the undue weight which might result from a biased, fanatical, or selective approach to reflecting the journalistic consensus and accolades that are relevant to this musical group. I'm sure all will agree with this equitable and sensible solution as it currently stands. Kkollaps (talk) 02:23, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

Would all y'all please knock it off with the edit warring? For what it's worth, I'm mildly (say 55%) inclined to just put the accolades in the main body of the article, my second choice would be the lead as it existed before the present disruption, and I can also live with the (OBVIOUSLY POINTY) expanded accolades in the lead. I'm mostly tired of seeing a bunch of editors that I respect going back and forth on this plain disruption. Maybe step away for a few days and then see how important the first paragraph of a wikipedia article on a rock band seems. CAVincent (talk) 18:21, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

WP:LEAD tells us that the topic's importance should be established right away in the lead section. Certainly the group's wide influence and chart successes should be highlighted. I'm in favor of any lead section that tells the reader how Siouxsie herself was considered a great frontwoman, especially as a positive counterpart to accolades given to the guitarist and the drummer. If the guitarist and drummer are praised in the lead section, then Siouxsie herself must also be praised. Binksternet (talk) 18:59, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

I don't think it's pointy at all. If particular members of the band are praised excessively and not the singer, that seems like undue weight. I believe Kkollaps was trying to create balance, not making a point. 203.13.3.90 (talk) 05:19, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

Possible deletion of Category:Female-fronted musical groups

The category Female-fronted musical groups is up for deletion at Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2024_August_6#Category:Female-fronted_musical_groups, and this music group article has listed it as a category. If you have an opinion either way please join the discussion. Thanks. Fyunck(click) (talk) 06:56, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

What's with the weird despotic rule of no images on this or the Siouxsie page?

I'm not seeing the rationale here, Carliertwo you seem to have assumed a gatekeeper role for this page, can you explain the reasoning behind your reverts? Regardless of image quality, the page clearly needs visual appeal of some sort, and until a high quality image is found, surely it is sufficient for that section. I didn't remove or replace any images, so I'm baffled by your motives here; is this for the good or the page, or for what you feel this page should be?

I see a page empty or a section lacking images, I tend to try and help the page. You cannot remove images for being of insufficient quality, or scan or whatever. Michael0986 (talk) 22:04, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Aside from the image quality, I'm not entirely convinced by the offered argument that the image is public domain. (I'm not particularly knowledgeable about what WP can and can't legally use, so if someone more informed can opine, that'd be great.) Also noting that this page does not have a gatekeeper, and like all of WP is a collaborative project. Carliertwo has certainly put a lot of work into this and related articles, but it isn't like other interested and experienced editors aren't watching and contributing as well. CAVincent (talk) 04:36, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

Fair point, well, the images are there incase you guys wish to use them in future. I personally love the grainy, old-school quality of newspaper clippings, and try and upload as many as I can. I've had many uploads deleted in the past, but newspaper clippings pre-1989 seem to be a safe bet, thus far. I thought the group image from 87 was a great photo, not as bad quality as say, the shot of Elizabeth Fraser on the Cocteau Twins page in the 98-Present section. But hey, it's all good. Michael0986 (talk) 22:59, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

I can't disagree with the visual appeal you express about old-school newspaper clippings. However, my guess is that small circulation newspapers of the era (and meaning small circulation by the standard of the print / pre-internet era) were not particularly meticulous about respecting copyright law themselves. That a newspaper printed a photo without asserting or attributing copyright might not mean that *someone* doesn't still hold copyright. Cheers. CAVincent (talk) 06:53, 18 September 2024 (UTC)