Talk:Sláine (comics)/Archive 1

Archive 1

links

i removed invalid link to simon bisley page that does not anymore exist and i added notice after the precedent(may need correction of my english)

Bibliography

I've been through the bibliography and reformatted things in line with general standards and in keeping with the other related entries. What I have done is also divide them up by the Rebellion trades which has worked well with Nikolai Dante and the third Slaine The King is out in July (ISBN 190426557X) which should help further split things up further. What it is currently missing are the years for most of them so if someone else wants to feel free to add them or I will when I get time. (Emperor 19:37, 16 May 2007 (UTC))

Sources and influences

Those editing this section have to be careful as it can easily spill over into original research. I think it is fine to point out that characters appear in various legends (especially where there is a Wikipedia entry on them where readers can look at the information and make their own minds up) but it is probably stepping over the line to say that such and such was specifically taken form that legend unless you can find a Pat Mills interview which specifically says that. It is a thin line I know and possibly still a bit of a grey area but it is a good section and well worth keeping, it just needs a careful eye on the wording. I've asked for facts but on some it can be fixed with a simple rewording. Otehr things might need information from a Pat Mills interview. (Emperor 13:58, 5 June 2007 (UTC))

Cúchulainn was definitely the biggest inspiration for the character of Sláine. I have changed this on numerous occasions and the person who keeps changing it back is implying that Conan the barbarian is the bigger influence. (Munsterdevil (talk) 03:58, 3 June 2009 (UTC))

The paragraph says that the most obvious source is Conan, and then goes on to discuss the deeper influences, including Cú Chulainn! Your edits are redundant and make the paragraph totally incoherent. Besides, all Sláine takes from Cú Chulainn is the warp spasm and the gae bolga - otherwise he's a very different character with a different personality, different personal status and a totally different story. --Nicknack009 (talk) 08:18, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Recently

Using words like "recently" are not useful in a wikipedia entry. Something that is "recent" to someone in 2007 is not "recent" to someone in 2017. See how that works? Please always announce specific dates, where possible, or approximate dates if specifics are not available. 24.73.77.230 (talk) 13:34, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Time Killers

Am I being short-sighted, or is there no mention at all of the Time Killers storyline in the current plot section? I accept that it wasn't the most popular of his storylines, but it was significant, not least because it introduced the Dungeons & Dragons roleplaying game into the comic. Chaheel Riens (talk) 13:45, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

Just for future editors, Time Killer did not bring D&D (or roleplaying) to 2000AD. Firstly, the thing that brought D&D to 2000AD was adverts for the game, paid for by TSR. Secondly, Time Killer wasn't an RPG or D&D - the closest equivalent were adventure gamebooks (though Diceman would be a closer parallel to those). There are brushes between 2000AD and D&D, but it didn't come until one and a half decades later, with the Sláine and Judge Dredd games in the early 2000s. sheridan (talk) 02:15, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

Sorry, but that's not the case. Prog 447-461's (1985) Tomb of Terror introduced the roleplaying element into Slaine (and so 2000AD) whereby the reader could play along as Slaine attempted to prevent Grimnismal from waking up from his tomb.

In the context above I used the term "Dungeons & Dragons" as a generic term for Role playing Games, and as far as trademarks go then there was no crossover, but nevertheless - TimeKillers was the first 2000AD RPG, preceding Diceman by a year, and the other examples by 15+ years.

I read somewhere an interview with Pat Mills that the Slaine storyline was a "toe in the water" to see if they could justify creating an entire magazine based on the wave of RPG's then current popularity - which resulted in Diceman's creation. Probably why (again according to Mills,) Slaine became the magazines most popular character. Hack, slash, Roll a D6, repeat. Chaheel Riens (talk) 08:58, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

I suppose if we want to be picky, the role-playing element didn't begin until Prog 448 - prog 447 set the scene and rules, but the reader/player didn't get to participate until the next prog. Chaheel Riens (talk) 14:37, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

Pronunciation

I notice someone's changed the pronunciation of "Sláine" back from my effort ("Slahn-yeh") to "Slawin-uh". Aside from being clumsy and difficult to understand what pronunciation is actually intended (Sla-win or slaw-in?) I just think it's wrong. The i is there to keep the n slender and wouldn't be pronounced, any more than the o in Fionn which is there to keep the n broad. I think "ah" is a better way of representing the sound of á than "aw". And "Slawin-uh" also doesn't represent the slenderness of the n in any way. Comments from any wikipedians who know Irish?

Nicknack009

Hi Nicknack009

I'm an Irish speaker and I go with your "Slahn-yeh", much better than the other option.

Daithimac

Its pronounced slain, as in dead, this may be historically incorrect but thats how its said in the comic.

Whilst the majority of readers may well have pronounced the name 'slain', as per the English pronunciation of those letters, the name is definitely correctly pronounced 'Slahn-yeh'. I was told this by an Irish reader once. In fact, if I remember rightly, there was an issue that carried a guide to the pronunciation of some of the names in the strip, including Niamh ('Neeve', I think), and Mebd (can't remember, maybe 'Meeve' :)). LSmok3 00:34, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Just as a point of reference, you can hear series creator Pat Mills pronounce it as "slain" in a podcast dated 2010-12-12 (9 mins in). 94.195.194.71 (talk) 12:15, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

• {However, Pat Mills is (to say the least) a bit “public school” in his speech. He might not be the best guide to pronunciation of a Gaelic name - regardless of his hair colour and first name! ;) }* — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.135.129.252 (talk) 13:48, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

Note from another Irish reader, Medb = 'Mayv'

I was told (by a person brought up speaking Irish Gaelic) that the correct pronunciation is more like Shlawn-ah or Shlawn-eh (or to borrow from Germanic: Shlön-eh... more of an eww than an aww.

I've always read it as that since. It's absolutely not "SLAIN" that's just American laziness 😉 Bizenya (talk) 08:13, 14 February 2020 (UTC)

It’s Slaw-nyuh folks, take that from an Irish person. It’s the accent over the ‘á’ that creates this pronunciation, otherwise it would be Slain/Slane. Another example of this would be the difference between the Irish name Seán and the Irish word sean, meaning old. The former because of the accent over the ‘á’ is pronounced (and sometimes even spelled by non Irish) Shawn or Shaun. The latter word sean without the accent over the ‘a’ is pronounced shan. IrishGuy 11:19, 11 May 2022 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.64.72.113 (talk)

The pronunciation was covered in a specific letters page in 2000ad itself. I forget what the definitive answer was, but ISTR that it was along the lines of "Shlawn-ay". I'll try to remember the prog number and look it up. I'm pretty sure that when Mills created Slaine he never expected so much furore over the pronunciation. It's not like it's "Slade", but "S-L-A-Y-E-D." to you. Chaheel Riens (talk) 14:37, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

There’s really only one question here and that’s why Irish and British people have different pronunciations for this character’s name. I’ve given you the authentic pronunciation of the Irish name ‘Sláine’, if you decide not to accept that information, that’s your prerogative. As it happens, I do think it’s fairly obvious that Mills intended the character’s name to be pronounced ‘Slain’. Unfortunately he undermined that intention by including the accent above the ‘a’. Maybe he just wasn’t aware of its significance and meaning, maybe he just didn’t care? Either way, perhaps he should have made more of an effort to understand/respect the culture that he was mining for his stories and financial gain? But that’s a whole other debate. IrishGuy 10:16, 21 May 2022 (UTC) 51.37.3.109 (talk) 09:18, 21 May 2022 (UTC)

I'd forgotten about this - I still mean to look for the letter (and response) that appeared in Tharg's Nerve Centre. However, one thing of interest is that I'm also currently listening to Pat Mills' "Be Pure, Be Vigilant, Behave" audiobook read by Mills himself. He consistently refers to Sláine as "Slain" - as in bereft of life. So regardless of Tharg, the Irish or the British, creator Mills considers the pronunciation to be simply "Slain". Chaheel Riens (talk) 16:31, 21 May 2022 (UTC)

Proposal

How about this. We remove the IPA from the first sentence lede, and instead create a "pronunciation" sub section in the article body. As a first draft I propose something like this:

---

Pronunciation

There is no definitive pronunciation of the name "Sláine". A literal English reading is "Slain", as intended by creators Mills and Kincaid. However, according to an interview with Spacewarp comics Mills admits that due to the inclusion of an accent, the correct pronunciation is "Slaw-nyuh - or some variation thereof" and that "...it's my bad; when I was creating the character I never thought that anyone was ever going to ask me this, so I thought that - you know - the accent over the 'a' looks cool ... if I hadn't put that damned accent over the 'a' I could have just said 'Slain'." According to a letter and response in Tharg's Nerve centre, the pronunciation is "Slawyne".

---

I know that youtube is often frowned on as a reference, but this is literally what we're after. The comments are in the first two minutes of a 2 hours interview, so you don't even have to trawl it to find the good stuff. Several things are clear from the interview:

1. The correct linguistic pronunciation is "Slaw-nyuh"
2. Even "Slaw-nyuh" has variations, depending on where you're from in Ireland
3. "Slaw-nyuh" is not the intended pronunciation, which is "Slain"
4. Mills added the "á" for aesthetic, not linguistic reasons.

Thoughts? Chaheel Riens (talk) 08:59, 22 May 2022 (UTC)