Talk:Slavic Native Faith's theology and cosmology

User Complaint

This user https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Milostje has been inventing their own theology and god, and adding it to pages without citing any sources (no such source exist). I have undone some of their edits.

Cleaning up the article

I've decided to clarify throughout the article that this article describes the beliefs commonly held by modern adherents of the Slavic Native Faith, and that these views are not always agreed by modern academics to be representative of pre-Christian Slavic beliefs. Any suggestions as to how to improve this article further are welcome. Midnight-Blue766 (talk) 20:02, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

Scholars of ancient Slavic paganism have not much to say about modern Rodnovery, which is a new religious movement whose beliefs are based on remnants of Slavic paganism in folklore integrated with doctrines from other religions perceived to be related to ancient Slavic paganism (Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, Siberian shamanism, etc.), and whose beliefs are therefore different from the hypothesised beliefs of ancient Slavic paganism. Thus, scholarship about the hypothesised ancient Slavic religion does not pertain to modern Rodnovery.--Æo (talk) 10:58, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 19 September 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: No consensus. Contributors are divided over whether it is better to have a more concise article title or a more precise title for this article. The question of whether to use "Rodnovery" or "Slavic Native Faith" in the article title was raised, but it would be better to decide that question at the main Slavic Native Faith article talk page. (non-admin closure) Rreagan007 (talk) 02:07, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

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Slavic Native Faith's theology and cosmology → Slavic Native Faith beliefs – This title is too complicated Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 16:30, 19 September 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. Edward-Woodrow • talk 11:53, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose: This is not Simple English Wikipedia, so "too complicated" is not a good reason for a title change. The article treats both the theologies and cosmologies — which, albeit interconnected, may be regarded as two different fields of thought — of the new religious movement of Rodnovery. An alternative solution might be to change the title to "Rodnover theology and cosmology", using the now well established adjective for "Rodnovery". Æo (talk) 12:11, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

  I am not that knowledgeable about the terms Rodnovery vs Slavic Native Faith. It might be worth doing a collective move proposal on all articles containing "Slavic Native Faith" in their titles. My perception was that Rodnovery only referred to Eastern Slavic traditions and excluded western and southern slavic similar to how Asatru only contains northern germanic while heathenry is all Germanic.

  Nonetheless I am not proposing that we simplify the article, but rather that for ease of discovery and Search Engine optimization, having complicated titles which one can easily type incorrectly is not preferable. I believe there are likely many articles that could have had this article linked in them but were not linked because the person was unable to find this article when searching for an article to link. Likewise these are not common names for the topics at hand Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 18:10, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

  "Rodnovery" is the English name of the movement (while its adjective and noun-adjective is "Rodnover[s]"), not Russian or East Slavic, although it resembles either the Russian nominative plural case of the noun rodnover (роднове́р), i.e. rodnovéry (роднове́ры), or the prepositional case of rodnovérije (роднове́рие), i.e. rodnovérii (роднове́рии), and possibly similar declension cases of the equivalent terms in other Slavic languages. And it is used not only for the Eastern Slavic variants of the movement, but for the movement as a whole, also including its Western and Southern Slavic variants. See the following examples of the comprehensive use of the term: (1) uses it to refer to the movement in Russia; (2, 3) in Slavic countries in general; (4) in Poland.

  1) Zuev, Denis (2013). "The Russian March: Investigating the Symbolic Dimension of Political Performance in Modern Russia". Europe-Asia Studies, Volume 65. Quote: "...discourse in the blogosphere (Etling et al. 2010) and within particular web communities, such as Rodnovery (Aitamurto 2007). At the same time, the structure...".

  2) Radulović, Nemanja (2021). "The New Life of 'The Book of Veles'. Transformations of Mystification into Myth". In Disenchantment, Re-Enchantment and Folklore Genres, Belgrade: Institute for Literature and Arts. Quote: "The Book has had the key role in the creation of Rodnovery... a new form of reception followed the appearance of Rodnovery in Serbia early in the 21st century. According to the available information, The Book of Veles plays no significant role in the Rodnovery of Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovenia, and Croatia (Polish translation appeared as late as 2013/2014)... About Ukrainian Rodnovery...".

  3) Maiello, Giuseppe (2018). "On the Agony of Czech Slavic Paganism and the Representation of One's Own Funeral among Contemporary Czech Pagans". The Pomegranate, Volume 20, Issue 2. Quote: "Today the Slavic contemporary Paganism or Rodnovery is also present in the Balkans, but fifteen years ago Slavic identity there was associated...".

  4) Grochowski, Piotr (2020). "The feasts of 'Stado' and 'Kupala Night' in the rituals of the Polish Rodnovers. A revival of ethnographic sources". Ethnolinguistics, Volume 32. Quote: "It is argued in this study that contemporary Rodnovers (practitioners of Slavic Native Faith, or Rodnovery) revive ethnographic and historical sources...".

  Regarding I am not proposing that we simplify the article, but rather that for ease of discovery and Search Engine optimization, having complicated titles which one can easily type incorrectly is not preferable, this is what WP:RDR are meant for. Regarding an overall switch from "Slavic Native Faith" to "Rodnovery/Rodnover", I think it is not the case yet. I proposed it for ancillary articles like this one about aspects of Rodnovery just for the sake of simplification of titles, which seemed to be the main driver behind your move requests.--Æo (talk) 09:38, 23 September 2023 (UTC)

  I think we need further feedback on this Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 17:43, 23 September 2023 (UTC)

• Support. The proposed title seems to be a more WP:CONCISE way of expressing the same idea. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 15:01, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

  "Beliefs" is too generic, however. It may include anything from cosmology, to theology, to psychology (theory of the soul and its afterlife fate), to mythology (allegorical or historical representation of the former). "Slavic Native Faith's theology and cosmology" or "Rodnover theology and cosmology" in my opinion better frame the specific topics treated by this article. Æo (talk) 12:48, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.