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Talk:Snake Eater (song)/GA1

< Talk:Snake Eater (song)
Latest comment: 9 months ago by Rhain in topic GA Review

GA Review

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Latest comment: 9 months ago14 comments2 people in discussion
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Reviewer: Rhain (talk · contribs) 11:00, 12 February 2024 (UTC)Reply

I'll take this one! Expect a review shortly. – Rhain ☔ (he/him) 11:00, 12 February 2024 (UTC)Reply

Infobox and lead

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  • Remove the full stop from the image caption per MOS:CAPFRAG
  • where the song played → where the song is played
  • In Metal Gear Solid 3, the song... → The song...
  • a lengthy sequence → a sequence
  • in a 2015 re-recording of the song. → in a 2015 re-recording.
  • Some publications have considered it to be one of → Some publications considered it among
    • All above done.

Background

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  • This section goes a little beyond background information—consider renaming it something like Background and production
    • Done.
  • The song was composed similarly to themes used in James Bond films—is there any reference of Hibino stating this? All three refs only refer to the song as "Bond-like" but no reference to its production
    • Changed it to say that publications pointed out similarities.
      • Looks good! Might be worth moving to Reception now. ☔
  • Remove Prior to performing "Snake Eater",
    • Done.
  • performance of the closing theme of Castlevania: Symphony of the Night, "I Am The Wind." → performance of "I Am the Wind", the closing theme of Castlevania: Symphony of the Night.
    • Done.
  • Konami music producer Rika Muranaka, whom was also her friend, to → her friend, Konami music producer Rika Muranaka, to
    • Done.
  • She described her initial thoughts on the song as knowing there was "something special about it". → She felt there was "something special" about it.
    • Done.
  • Is there a reason for two refs at the end of the first paragraph? It appears all the information is in the second one
    • Removed the first reference.
  • Merge the second paragraph's first two sentences with the previous paragraph
    • Done.
  • publisher of the Metal Gear → publisher of Metal Gear
    • Done.
  • final version of the song → final version in Los Angeles
    • Done.
  • which was being done by a live orchestra → with a live orchestra
    • Done.
  • "Snake Eater" with additional reverb → "Snake Eater", performed by actor Donna Burke, with additional reverb, and remove the following sentence
    • Done.
  • was released as part of the Metal Gear Solid Vocal Tracks album, which released exclusively in Japan → was included on the Japan-exclusive album Metal Gear Solid Vocal Tracks
    • Done.
  • Burke went on to perform the song → Burke recorded the song
    • Done.
  • which fueled ongoing rumors...—this isn't really necessary
    • Mentioning the remake rumors or that bit of the sentence?
      • The remake rumours; I don't think they're entirely necessary, especially in light of the remake being official. You might disagree, though. ☔
        • Nah, I agree. Removed.
  • in the game's opening → in the opening
    • Done.
  • Later in the game, the song appears → It later appears
    • Done.
  • defeating The End, one of the game's bosses → a boss fight
    • Done.
  • the reveal trailer → the 2023 reveal trailer
    • Done.
  • The song has appeared in other media as well, with an instrumental version of the song being featured → An instrumental version was featured
    • Done.
  • Several other bands have performed covers of the song, such as the 8-Bit Big Band in 2022 as part of their album Backwards Compatible, and live performances being conducted by the Video Game Orchestra. → Cover versions have been performed by the Video Game Orchestra in 2013 and 8-Bit Big Band in 2022.
    • Done.

Reception

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  • First sentence needs referencing
    • Done.
  • Ash Parrish of Kotaku and Chris Carter of Destructoid → Kotaku's Ash Parrish and Destructoid's Chris Carter, etc.
    • Done.
  • both praised → praised
    • Done.
  • CNET praised → CNET's Michelle Starr praised
    • Done.
  • Oliver Jia of Video Game Music Online wrote the song to be an "unforgettable song" that was deserving of all of its praise, though wrote that the lyrics occasionally "evoke moments of cheesiness." → Video Game Music Online's Oliver Jia considered the song "unforgettable" and deserving of praise but found the lyrics occasionally cheesy. or similar
    • Done.
  • Several journalists have praised → Several journalists praised
    • This part of the sentence also needs referencing
      • Done both.
  • Harry Sprinks of Game Rant writing the song to "encapsulate → Game Rant's Harry Sprinks felt the song "encapsulate[s] or similar
    • Done.
  • Consider elaborating Gilbert and Frank's praises—what in particular did they like about those sequences?
    • The usage of the song, I'm not too sure if they pointed out specific parts of the sequence they liked besides the usage of the song.
      • Gilbert's article has some commentary on the lyrics and instrumentation that may be relevant. Frank's briefly mentions the song "set[ting] the tone" for the game, and mentions that "it demands introspection", which might fit somewhere (but might not). ☔
        • Integrated.
  • Mike Futter of Game Informer echoed similar thoughts to Frank, describing its usage as one of the most memorable moments in all of video games. Futter furthermore described it as one of the best video game themes songs. → Game Informer's Mike Futter considered the song among the most memorable game themes and the ladder sequence one of the most memorable moments in video games. or similar
    • Done.
  • Paste considered it one of the best video game vocal tracks—this is repetitive of the preceding sentence; consider combining
    • Done.
  • Paste → Paste's Austin Jones
    • Done.
  • Consider mentioning the song's win at the 3rd Game Audio Network Guild Awards
    • Done.

References

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  • From this revision:
    • Ref 3: VGMO -Video Game Music Online- → Video Game Music Online
      • Done.
    • Ref 8: gamesradar → GamesRadar
      • Done.
    • Add author names to refs 9, 11, and 15
      • Done.
    • Add date to ref 11
      • Done.
    • Archive refs 3, 7, 9, 12, and 15
      • Ran the Internet Archive Bot, I think this got them.
  • This is possibly outside of scope for GAN, but titles of works should be italicised in references per MOS:CONFORMTITLE
    • Done.
  • If you haven't already, consider incorporating these references:
    • Smith, Jennifer (August 2019). "Vocal disruptions in the aural game world: The female entertainer in The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt, Transistor and Divinity: Original Sin II". The Soundtrack. 11 (1–2): 75–97. doi:10.1386/ts_00006_1.
      • I'm not sure if this has anything that can be used here that goes in significant detail based on the title, but I can check it a different day.
        • Here's the full quote (p. 80):

          The well-known ladder sequence from Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater (Konami Computer Entertainment Japan 2004) uses a female voice-over to perform the cue 'Snake Eater' as the player-character climbs a ladder for the entirety of the cue. The female voice exists in the non-diegetic space; her voice-over is heard above the sound of wind in the tunnel environment and the repetitive low frequencies of the player-character (Snake) climbing the ladder. The female voice is used to pace the story and to provide a reflective moment for Snake, but also to parody the female performances of James Bond film openings, highlighting the character's misogynistic use of women; the cue is taken from the opening cinematic of the game that parodies the Bond openings further by using similar imagery and a swing band to accompany the female voice. The solo voice and ladder sequence appears just before the final boss, with the voice appearing as Michel Chion's disembodied allknowing I-voice (1999: 49). The disembodied role of the non-diegetic voice, and voice-over, places the female voice as Snake's narrator.

        I think it might actually be useful, though it depends if you have a logical location for the information. ☔
  • Significantly more than I expected there to be in the source, but what you pointed out is correct, I do not think there is any place in this article I can use that source for.
  • Had more material than I expected, incorporated.
  • Incorporated.
  • I'm trying to avoid too much emphasis on commentary related to the ladder sequence itself. The ladder sequence ironically enough could get its own article, as stupid as that idea is, but this article is about the song.
  • I had a feeling this would be the case, but figured it was worth bringing them up to be sure. ☔
  • Passing mention, don't really think anything here can be used.
  • Don't think there's much to use here either.
  • Not sure about this one.
  • Doesn't mention the song.

I'll look into the material of these to see if anything can be implemented. Thanks for bringing these to my attention! See above comments for what I ended up incorporating.

Images

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  • File:MGS3 Ladder.png has a sufficient non-free use rationale and is used appropriately here
  • Consider adding an image of Hibino
    • Done.

Result

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This was an interesting read—thanks for writing! A bit of copy-editing is needed, but certainly nothing insurmountable. A lot of my comments are nitpicky so feel free to disagree or ask for clarification, and anything written like this is purely a personal suggestion. I'll likely do another pass once my comments are addressed—until then, putting this on hold.   – Rhain ☔ (he/him) 13:13, 12 February 2024 (UTC)Reply

Thank you for reviewing! I've addressed all the above comments. λ NegativeMP1 07:05, 14 February 2024 (UTC)Reply
Thanks NegativeMP1! I left a response above regarding the reference, and will take another look at the article soon. – Rhain ☔ (he/him) 07:19, 14 February 2024 (UTC)Reply

I've done some minor editing of formatting and prose, and I think the article looks great in that regard. After looking over the references, though, I can't help but feel there's more content to be added—something akin to a Composition or Composition and lyrics section, discussing the song's instrumentation and lyrical interpretation. Some relevant reference excerpts:

  • The Soundtrack: "The female voice exists in the non-diegetic space; her voice-over is heard above the sound of wind in the tunnel environment and the repetitive low frequencies of the player-character (Snake) climbing the ladder. The female voice is used to pace the story and to provide a reflective moment for Snake ... The disembodied role of the non-diegetic voice, and voice-over, places the female voice as Snake's narrator."
  • Square Enix Music Online: "Vocalist Cynthia Harrell's velvety soul-influenced interpretation combines with chromatic chord progressions, sleazy horn punctuations, and even some backing singing."
  • GamesRadar: "the brass section wails at the end"
  • Kotaku: "It's a heart-wrenching song if you imagine it's The Boss singing to Naked Snake (and the lyrics support that theory). And while it is moving and sad, it's not without quirk." (already included in Reception, but perhaps better here)
  • Paste: "Cynthia Harrell's fervid vocals"
  • The James Bond comparison would also fit in this section, in which case The Soundtrack's analysis is perfect: "The female voice is used ... to parody the female performances of James Bond film openings, highlighting the character's misogynistic use of women; the cue is taken from the opening cinematic of the game that parodies the Bond openings further by using similar imagery and a swing band to accompany the female voice."

I also found some other bits that might fit in Reception:

  • SEMO: "The result is a fitting, memorable, and full of character, ranking as one of the best video game vocal pieces ever created."
  • GameRevolution and Mashable both mention how the ladder sequence would have been boring if not for the music.
  • Destructoid also calls the song "cheesy", but you likely have enough references for that already.

Let me know your thoughts. – Rhain ☔ (he/him) 23:58, 14 February 2024 (UTC)Reply

Thank you for compiling some of this together, I'll take a look into creating a composition and lyrics section soon. It'll take a bit for me to figure out the quirks of that, though. This is my second time creating an article on a song, and first time trying to get one to GA. λ NegativeMP1 03:55, 15 February 2024 (UTC)Reply
No worries at all! I have no interest in failing this nomination, so take as much time as you need. Let me know if you'd like any help at all—I'm happy to write something up to start with, provide some more ideas, or simply point you to other articles for reference. – Rhain ☔ (he/him) 04:32, 15 February 2024 (UTC)Reply
Hi, I still plan on doing this, I just slowed down on editing after having to do some stuff, primarily coordinating with people on how to honor the death of editor Vami IV. Hopefully within the coming days I'll work on this. λ NegativeMP1 02:14, 19 February 2024 (UTC)Reply
Take all the time you need. As above, let me know if you'd like me to take a crack first, especially while you're busy with more important matters. Thanks for keeping me in the loop. – Rhain ☔ (he/him) 02:21, 19 February 2024 (UTC)Reply
I took a crack at a composition section with what I felt could be incorporated. It's kinda small, but I'm looking to hear your thoughts. I'm also considering adding a sample of the song for the section. λ NegativeMP1 22:59, 19 February 2024 (UTC)Reply
Thanks for adding that, NegativeMP1—it looks great! I've made some adjustments per my comments above. I actually had the same thoughts regarding a sample; I'm sure most parts of the song are suitable, but an excerpt supported by commentary would be especially great. Let me know your thoughts, and if you need any assistance. – Rhain ☔ (he/him) 23:56, 19 February 2024 (UTC)Reply
Added a sample on the section that some pointed out as having "cheesy" lyrics. I think that basically marks the end of what all can be done with this article, but I'll leave that up to you. I greatly appreciate the source searching and adjustments you made! λ NegativeMP1 18:10, 20 February 2024 (UTC)Reply
I agree—this basically marks the end of my suggestions! That sample works great. I'll make some minor changes on my way out (including expanding the audio caption to make its usage clearer) but that's about it from me. This is all yours:  ‍! Congratulations. – Rhain ☔ (he/him) 00:20, 21 February 2024 (UTC)Reply
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