Talk:Songbird (software)

User Agent String

A web browser does NOT need a User Agent string. See http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec14.html It says MAY, not MUST. I know, it's not a big error, but it's simply wrong! --85.127.128.31 (talk) 15:52, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Winamp developers?

An article on Ars Technica claims that Winamp developers are behind Songbird. Is this true? If so, anyone have a source? Jacoplane 11:14, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Compare songbirdnest.com with winamp.com -CraigF 19:29, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

I believe it actually is. According to this page, Pioneers of Inevitable(the maintainer)worked on winamp and yahoo music engine: http://www.songbirdnest.com/about Achilles2.0 05:31, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

3 of the Songbird developers were part of the Winamp dev team: Mig Gerard, Ghislain Lacroix and Francis Gastellu. In addition, the project was started by Rob Lord, who was part of the early Winamp team.

userbox

Hey, I made this neat userbox for songbird. Yeah, I know it sucks, but please forgive me. It's my first one.

This user listens to music with Songbird.

Logo Changes

Ive been using songbird every now and then, and I've come to realize on version 2.1.0 that they made an logo/icon change? This is the third logo I've seen from them over the yeaars 1)The Fat black bird with headphones 2)The pink icon with 'SB" in white text\ 3)An oddly shaped black bird with pink background (Current)

Should their be a page or information about the icon changes? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.187.201.44 (talk) 12:59, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Cool!--Kenn5 (talk) 00:00, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

history/symbolism

It would be nice to get some background on the graphic art used in the webpage and install screen. It seems that they got the graphic art in place first, and then decided to code the actual player. Also, why are all the birds farting? (Also, for the above author, you may want to change your neat userbox so that it clears divs, and doesn't cause overlap with heading blocks like it does here)

What kind of background are you looking for? One of the co-founders of the company (jkoshi) is the visual designer, and has a penchant for his characters farting. 74.85.7.238 (talk) 01:40, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Easter Eggs

Do we add Easter Eggs under features?

In the search box type "migmigmig" sans quotes and press enter and you get a popup that says easter egg backwards. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Karit (talk • contribs) 01:37, 14 April 2007 (UTC).

Help with Songbird/Wikipedia

Finish filling out information for: Comparison of iPod Managers

Who finances this thing?

I could not find anything proper on their site, but since they have an office and hire real people to work there 9am-5pm, I wonder where the money comes from. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.135.97.161 (talk) 17:04, August 24, 2007 (UTC)

Our Songbird User Manual that's linked off our jobs page mentions our lead investor is Sequoia Capital. (full disclosure: I work for Songbird/POTI (i'm stevel)) 74.85.7.238 (talk) 01:38, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Songbird 0.3pre macosx.png

Image:Songbird 0.3pre macosx.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 21:14, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Zune

Does Songbird support the Zune? --192.154.91.225 (talk) 18:22, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Songbird 0.5 adds MTP support. I don't think the Zune was one of the tested devices, but we've been testing with Sansa and a few other random MTP devices we happen to have. (full disclosure: I work for Songbird/POTI (i'm stevel)) 01:36, 19 March 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.85.7.238 (talk)

The Zune uses a slightly modified version of MTP, the extensions were changed to MTPZ. --68.81.70.65 (talk) 00:34, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

From personal experience I can tell you that Songbird 0.5 detects and fully supports the Zune 30, you can even edit playlists and delete files, unmount works as well. It takes some time for it to mount the device. I have yet to figure out how to synch. --Xero (talk) 10:01, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

GStreamer

Future versions will use GStreamer as the default on all platforms. --192.154.91.225 (talk) 19:58, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Stable?

Since 6.1 is considered an alpha, wouldn't 7 be the latest stable? 96.245.10.177 (talk) 02:07, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

v0.7 is beta --toehead2001 (talk) 09:23, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Gopher client?

Songbird is listed in Category:Gopher Clients and in Template:Gopher clients. However, there is no mention of this in the article, and it is unusual to find a music player with gopher support. Can somebody who uses Songbird please locate a citation for this and add it to the article? --nandhp (talk) 22:24, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

It is build on gecko, so it has gopher support. the template will be removed in future, becauso mozila 2 (gecko version in ff4) will remove gopher! --> doesn't matter: sngbird has gopher support! mabdul 0=* 13:43, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Legal issues

I've remove the Legal Issues section because it's.. well, pretty wrong. First off, the trademark issue does not prevent Linux distributions from packaging and including Songbird. The trademark issue is the *exact* same for Songbird as it is for Mozilla & Firefox. If distributions are opposed to non-free (as in speech) use of trademarks, such as Debian, then they are free to remove the Songbird branding (and use of trademarks) and build a completely free (since all the code is GPL'd) package of Songbird by calling it something else.

Also, the add-ons are licensed under whatever license the add-on developer desires... again, just like any other Mozilla add-ons. Most of the add-ons developed by POTI, Inc. are open sourced under BSD or GPL licenses. There are four (iPod, MTP, Windows Media, and Quicktime) that are closed-source and licensed under a proprietary fashion.

I'm all for having a section on the legal issues, but the previous text was incorrect. I think a section discussing the licensing and trademarks, similar to what the Mozilla Firefox entry has makes the most sense. Anyone else agree/disagree?

full disclosure: I'm employed by POTI, Inc. and I'm a developer working on Songbird

Stevel grommit (talk) 20:22, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

I modified a misleading image caption that implied Zune is supported and added a bit of text from the organization's website indicating that Apple iPhones, iPod Touch and Microsoft Zune devices are not yet supported. -FoxMajik (talk) 00:29, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Free as in what?

If this product is funded by a venture capital fund is it really free? Free as in what? Venture capital groups don't just give away money so the fact that this product is produced by an office that has employees on payroll implies that at some point there's going to be money changing hands between the company and customers one way or another. Shouldn't the method be disclosed on how the venture capital will be paid back to Sequoia Capital? I'm sort of getting that mirabilis-esque "it's free until we build a userbase then we're going to load it up with an ad client or start charging for it" vibe. -FoxMajik (talk) 01:11, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

It's free as of right now, and I have not seen any indication that it won't be. If you can find a reliable source, feel free to add a neutral point of view remark on it. Please also keep in mind that synthesis or extrapolation of published sources is not allowed and that Wikipedia is not a collection of unverifiable speculation. Daniel J Simanek (talk) 04:59, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

And the parts of it that are now released under a free software license will always remain free, as in speech and as beer. 88.148.195.228 (talk) 11:51, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

I really believe this could be cleared up in the article and still maintain a neutral point of view. As someone who has never used Songbird, I am very suspicious about just how "FOSS" it really is. Perhaps the "exceptions" to the license (GPLv2) could be noted in the article.

Additionally, I find the following sentence in the summary somewhat confusing: "The company will stop adding new features and maintaining the Linux version, leaving further development and support of the Linux program to the FOSS community." While I think I understand, it sounds odd that a company developing FOSS will be "leaving further development [...] to the FOSS community." Perhaps instead it should simply say "to the community" or "to other FOSS developers in the community."

99.181.139.215 (talk) 17:29, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

The paragraph on future development was perfectly readable and unambiguous until someone changed it. I have reverted those changes.
--Gyrobo (talk) 19:56, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Release history

Does anyone know what the developers plan is for a release. They have blown through several timetables already, and I have heard that they intend to push everything out with Madonna, but I haven't seen anything concrete. Does anyone have a good source for whats going on so we can clean this section up? Daniel J Simanek (talk) 21:05, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Why is there a release history in here anyways? Seems too detailed for a Wikipedia article. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 02:04, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Many other software articles do the same, and, in fact, 4 out of the 5 FA and GA's listed at WP:WPFS have revision histories of some kind. I don't think it's a question of, 'should it be there' but more of a 'how do we go about cleaning it up, and where do we find the info to do so.'

Well it seems as if someone just deleted it. I have put it back, for now, in a much lighter weight form. I would request that, if it is deleted again, the deleter please give a good reason. Daniel J Simanek (talk) 08:20, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

I've just updated the release history to reflect the official Songbird roadmap as it currently stands. I must say their versioning schema is chaotic and I'm in two minds as to whether non-release versions (1.5.0 - 1.7.0) should be removed entirely or whether to introduce a new colour code for these internal 'releases'. Anubeon (talk • contribs) 00:26, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

I like the idea of a new color for internal releases. Daniel J Simanek (talk) 03:44, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

 Done --Gyrobo (talk) 14:40, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Could someone please explain why version 1.10 is scheduled for release in 2011 long after 1.80 has been out? 66.15.183.105 (talk) 21:48, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

They are version numbers not decimal numbers, the number 10 follows the number 9. (and it is 1.8.0 not 1.80) --Chainz (talk) 11:39, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Loss of iPod Device Support

I recently updated Songbird to version 1.4.3 and noticed that my iPod was no longer recognized. Upon further investigation I found out that beyond version 1.2 (with 1.3 not a full public release) Songbird would no longer support iPod devices. As the iPod Device Support page at addons.songbirdnest.com states, "This add-on is no longer developed or supported by the Songbird development team. It may or may not work for you. The code is open source, and we welcome any further development on it by the Songbird community".

The last updated version, 3.0.14.1190 is available for Windows, Linux and Mac Intel, but will only support Songbird between versions 1.3.0b1 and 1.3.0pre, which were not major public releases.

Points that need to be addressed:

1. Update the Entry - it should be noted in the Wiki entry that iPod device support has been suspended by the primary development team, though there is a possibility that it may be resurrected by another developer(s).

2. Reasoning? - why was support for this highly popular, even crucial add-on dropped? I know that we have some employees of POTI here on Wiki, could they answer this? Is it because of legal issues with Apple? Was the add-on consuming too much development time? etc.

3. Adding Criticism Section - in searching for an answer as to why Songbird would not longer see my iPod, I came across A LOT of complaints about the lack of iPod support in newer versions of Songbird. For many users, including myself, an early motivator for using Songbird was as a replacement for iTunes, and given it's open-source nature, it could provide software that surpassed what was available from Apple. Consequently, a major benefit has been removed from Songbird. In my case, I initially went back to version 1.2, and I an now in the process of looking for another media player to manage my iPod. My point is, it seems to be a serious issue that has not been given attention in the Wiki entry. A criticisms section could also include other critiques of Songbird, whether it be on development timelines and schedule, lack of visualization, dropping Linux support, etc.

Let me know what you guys think, Wiki1605 (talk) 08:25, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

If you can find reliable (and in the case of the complaints, secondary) sources, be bold and go to town. Daniel J Simanek (talk) 08:37, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Less techy mumbo-jumbo please

Why do we need to know, in the opening paragraphs, that this software uses the flippin XULRunner blah blah blah? I appreciate that this is open-source software and developers like to know this kind of information, so it shouldn't be deleted, but please could people in the know make this a more outward-facing article?

I went into Argos today and saw "Phillips Songbird" in the catalogue so I looked it up. I want to know what it does, is it like iTunes, does it do more things / fewer things, how popular is it. Not what frigging APIs it uses. Thanks --mcld (talk) 09:17, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Stable and preview release

the stable release and preview release are same. (1.8)how can be it possible? Czeror (talk) 13:41, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Release date N/A

Why do some releases have a release date of "N/A" in the table? Were they never released? If they were released and the release date is unknown, that should be indicated. N/A makes it sound like there isn't a release date. Reach Out to the Truth 01:07, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Confusing intro paragraph

The introduction currently ends with, "...largely capable of running on Microsoft Windows, Apple Mac OS X, Solaris and Linux. It is not supported on Linux or Solaris at this time, but users have forked Songbird and made a Windows- and Linux-compatible version under the name Nightingale."

This is very confusing. It's largely capable of running on Solaris and Linux, but it's not supported? What does that mean? And if it *is* supported on Windows, why would there need to be a Windows fork to Nightingale? This should somehow be clarified. Ouizardus (talk) 17:40, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Allegedly Open Source

Does anyone know if something has happened to the project? All of the developer links on their website are dead and the Songbird Developers Google Group hasn't been posted in since September 2012. It seems weird to label the project as open source if the source code isn't actually available anywhere. Hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii (talk) 15:29, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

This survey (if you go through it) seems to point towards their moving to a closed source, pay for working software model. They have closed all the developer tools and svn, and it seems that it's no longer open to us. As a member of the Nightingale dev team, we've asked questions, and while they're willing to let us have a source snapshot every so often or something, the openness that was once there no longer is... Feel free to checkout Nightingale though, as it is indeed still free, and we're actually fixing bugs and adding features. Oh, and we support Linux.

https://twitter.com/songbird/status/304651125460725760 (in case you're interested)

Ilikenwf (talk) 19:11, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Obtained by Phillips?

It looks like Phillips owns the rights to Songbird or has a license. Phillip's support page for Songbird. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.120.31.18 (talk) 19:20, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Why past tense?

"Songbird was a music player"

No, it is. The software is discontinued, but still usable and existing. Please never use past tense in articles for soft- and hardware, unless the functionality is completely broken because it needs access to a defunct website or similar. Unlike humans, software can't die and there are people out there who still use old versions. Formicula (talk) 09:09, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

I agree, and have tried to change the wording to reflect that the software still exists, but has been discontinued and is no longer active. - Aoidh (talk) 09:18, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

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