Talk:Sonic Superstars

Adding the games' logo

Should we do it RebelUltra (talk) 21:42, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

If an official version is publicly available, then definitely. SuperWikiBrother (talk) 13:31, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

Maybe from here? There's a logo and a marketing image with Sonic + the logo. Daalanso 3 (talk) 16:45, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

Dont worry already got it [1]https://sonicsuperstar.com/images/logo_lg.png RebelUltra (talk) 17:13, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

Usually we just wait until box art or icon art is revealed. Sergecross73 msg me 17:18, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

oh RebelUltra (talk) 17:28, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

On the website the logo has been revealed Mememaster6000 (talk) 17:35, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 June 2023

Please change "developed by Sonic Team" to "developed by Sonic Team and Arzest" Wikidiamondend (talk) 15:49, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

 Not done - The "Monkey King" YouTube account is not a reliable source. Sergecross73 msg me 15:59, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

References

Arzest as co-developers

Countless people have tried this, but it's all been unreliable sources like social media accounts, YouTubers, and Fansites. Any reliable sources confirming this definitely yet. It needs to stay out of the article until we do. And we need to know the role too. If they just did minor stuff like minor modeling and resource work, it's usually more of a footnote and dev section note. Sergecross73 msg me 17:43, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

Leaked release date

Should I add the leaked release date as the release date in the page? or should i add it in another sentence?? EditorPedia94 (talk) 23:32, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

No its sure to be announced officially soon enough. Sergecross73 msg me 23:37, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

Composers in Infobox

Pinging User:TheJoebro64 since we’ve gone back and forth on edits with this. In the infobox, only Senoue is listed as a composer Template: Infobox video game states to list any composers with significant contribution to the soundtrack should be listed. Most Sonic game pages on Wikipedia list more composers than just leads, as these composers have composed multiple songs for these respective games. See pages such as Sonic Unleashed or Sonic Adventure 2 for examples. I would say Lopes has significantly contributed to the soundtrack. He has composed multiple songs for the game, more than any of the other composers outside of Senoue. In the most recent revert User:TheJoebro64 mentioned why we should single out Lopes when not listing any of the other composers on the game, such as Shoji. As mentioned, Lopes has significantly contributed to the soundtrack composing multiple tracks while the others seem to have only composed a song or 2. Another fact is that in the game’s credits, Senoue is listed as Sound Director, with Lopes being the first name under composers and separated from the rest of the composers (credits are already uploaded in places like YouTube). For this reason, it is my belief Lopes should be included, composing a good chunk of songs for the game’s soundtrack should be more than enough to include him in the infobox, but to anyone reading this, let me know your thoughts. (VenFlyer98 (talk) 06:32, 17 October 2023 (UTC))

It doesn't particularly help to point at other articles unless there were actively discussions and consensus to include many composers there. Drive-by editors tinker with this sort of thing all the time - you could just be pointing out other bad ways of handling things - just because it was done elsewhere doesn't make it a standard to use.

That aside, while I'm not 100% sure where to draw the line here yet, I tend to favor less rather than more. Infoboxes are just the highlights, they're not meant to be comprehensive credits. Sergecross73 msg me 13:30, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

You can find Senoue carelessly referred to as "The Composer" of this game anywhere. We come to Wikipedia for the full and complete information. Looking at the infobox and then scrolling to the "music" section and seeing more names seems like the authors of this page made a mistake. It's such a bizarre decision that I have never once seen replicated anywhere else on Wikipedia in all my years.

I'd strongly urge you all to simply *remove the composers section from the infobox* and force people to read the music section if Joe is going to be so bafflingly insistent about this, rather than listing contradictory, false information. Kurobake (talk) 18:29, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

I can't tell if this is hyperbole or just a really misguided understanding of modern video game development. Modern video game development teams often span into hundreds and hundreds of employees. Do you commonly see infoboxes with that level of staff listed off? No one should be looking at infoboxes for the "full and complete information" of game staff. That is a fundamentally not what infoboxes are. They're just a quick snapshot of some key information at a glance. If you want the full credits, go watch the game's credits or look them up on on any number of these hyper-focused Sonic fansites like Sonic Retro. Sergecross73 msg me 18:38, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

My take is simply yes, multiple composers made some contributions to the soundtrack, but their contributions were relatively minor compared to Senoue, who composed the bulk of it. The infobox is not a full listing of the credits. If it's still such an issue to simply list him despite the fact he's the sound director and over 70% of the soundtrack was done by him we can add something like "Others; see Music" JOEBRO⁶⁴ 18:49, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Replying to everyone here:

@Sergecross73: Of course, what's in one article shouldn't be used as a basis for another in this case, I understand that. The Template page says the composer section should be discussed on a per-game basis on the talk page, hence me making this topic.

@Kurobake: Agree with the other responses here, not everyone needs to be in the infobox. That would just bloat things. See Help:Infobox, the infobox serves as a quick glance at important facts. There's a reason the rest of the article contains more detailed, complete facts than the infobox provides. Help:Infobox states to avoid excessive length. If someone wants to see more detailed information on every composer, they'd just scroll down and check out the music section.

@TheJoebro64: Yes, most composers on Superstars have relatively minor contributions. I'll bring up Shoji's contributions for example, from what we know it seems like he only composed 1 or 2 tracks (such as one of the acts for Speed Jungle) and that's it. That certainly isn't a "significant" contribution to the soundtrack, and thus I wouldn't include him. This goes for most composers on the soundtrack. This is why in my edits I've only been adding Lopes since I feel his contribution is "significant." Now what significant means is going to differ from person to person. Composing 20% of the soundtrack? 30%? 40%? For Superstars case, I feel Lopes did contribute significantly, he's done several interviews about his work for the game, has posted about Superstars and his work for it numerous times on his social media, is listed first and separately in the credits section under composers, and from what we know has composed more tracks in the game than any other composer that isn't Senoue, including several tracks for different stages. This is why I think he and Jun should be in the infobox and that's it, no need to link to Others, having them in the main article under music is enough since again, not significant enough contributions. Of course we won't know exactly how many tracks he did specifically unless the game gets a OST release or something similar, but considering how much he's talked about his work on the game and the fact he composed music for multiple stages and more than any of the other secondary composers, I'd consider his contribution significant. (VenFlyer98 (talk) 19:33, 17 October 2023 (UTC))

I understand that in your subsection of the Wikipedia community, your connotation for the "Composer(s)" section is "Lead Composer(s)". But to everyone else who will come here, the fact is: that the connotation will not be known, so the "Composer(s)" label is categorically incorrect.

You should either

- Change the label to "Lead Composer(s)"

- Add a line stating "with Various Others"

- Or just remove the section

Thank you for reading my thoughts. Kurobake (talk) 20:22, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

If there's any similar game I can compare this to, it's Sonic Generations. Multiple composers contributed to the soundtrack, some more significantly than others, but the bulk of it was done by Senoue. At the Generations article, we only list Senoue in the infobox and mention everyone else at the beginning of the music subsection. I think that's what we should be doing here. JOEBRO⁶⁴ 12:58, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

@Kurobake: This shouln't be an argument, again see Help:Infobox, it's for detailed short information, and Template:Infobox video game states to list only significant composers. It isn't for listing everybody, it's not just for lead composers. A game can have multiple composers and have some be more significant than others.

@TheJoebro64: In Generations case, other composers really only did a song or so here and there (mainly remixes of stage themes) with Senoue handling a bulk of the soundtrack. I agree listing him solo on Generations' page is fine because of this. While there were more significant contributions on that soundtrack, I feel there wasn't anything significant enough to warrant another composer in its infobox. In Superstars case though, Lopes has composed a decent amount of the soundtrack. For example, on the mini soundtrack that comes with the digital deluxe version, he's credited as composer on:

-The opening theme (co-composed with Senoue)

-Both acts of Bridge Island (co-composed with Senoue)

-Speed Jungle Act 1 (solo composer)

-Special Stage (solo composer)

Those are some pretty significant songs I'd say, especially since he co-composed some with Senoue. Once again, we can't compare 2 pages to each other (WP:WAX). This isn't about who has a more significant contribution to the soundtrack, it's about considering his contributions to the soundtrack overall as significant. No other secondary composer appears to have composed at least 9 tracks (see: https://x.com/TeeLopes/status/1714807990312693904?s=20) and considering he arranged multiple tracks for Senoue, I would consider that significant. Some Senoue tracks only sound the way they are because of Lopes, but if that isn't significant, not sure what would be considered significant. VenFlyer98 (talk) 22:50, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Placement in timeline?

When exactly, more specifically, what game, DOES this take place after? My assumption is that it follows on from Sonic Forces... Visokor (talk) 05:51, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

No idea. Does it matter? My understanding is that there's very little importance placed on story in this game. Sergecross73 msg me 15:35, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Not that it matters that much, but I believe it follows the classic timeline, taking place before all the modern games (Classic Sonic and one of the recent videos on the Sonic YouTube channel mentions how the characters are coming up on the “anniversary” of their adventure in Superstars). So maybe for Classic Sonic it takes place after Forces, but certainly not for Modern. VenFlyer98 (talk) 17:35, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

well, whether it's after Mania's Encore Mode or the Mania Adventures shorts for that matter is up to interpretation as well, right? Visokor (talk) 17:42, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

All of this sounds like original research that needs to stay out of the article. Sergecross73 msg me 18:41, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Agreed, was answering the question but this stuff doesn’t belong in the article. VenFlyer98 (talk) 20:07, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

• In this interview, Iizuka says it takes place after Sonic Mania and before Sonic Adventure. Could probably be added to the article but with attribution in Development, not as a matter of fact. There's really no continuity between these games. TarkusAB^talk/contrib 22:36, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Plot synopsis?

Can someone potentially add the plot synopsis, and may be where this could possibly take place in the timeline if that information is available? XIIIRoxasKeyblades (talk) 17:45, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

See section directly above. I don't think the game focuses much on plot. Sergecross73 msg me 23:52, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

I think Roxas is right. Without spoiling anything... you would be surprised how much lore there actually is behind the scenes. Also, this is before Adventure and after Mania. But yeah, there should probably be a plot section, albeit a very small one. FerDeLancer (talk) 22:09, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

That's contrary to what I've read, but feel free to propose one on the talk page here. Sergecross73 msg me 23:23, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

Super Mario Bros. Wonder release date coincidence

See also: Talk:Super Mario Bros. Wonder § Sonic Superstars commentary

At Talk:Super Mario Bros. Wonder § Sonic Superstars commentary, Sergecross73 and I have established consensus regarding the level of detail by which the release date coincidence of Super Mario Bros. Wonder and Sonic Superstars should be discussed, but when I applied the agreed-upon wording to this article, TheJoebro64 reverted it, saying that "that consensus is for the Wonder article, not here. What's here currently is perfectly fine." I now ask: what is the relevant difference between Sonic Superstars § Release and Super Mario Bros. Wonder § Development and release? Are there any arguments made at the aforementioned discussion that apply only to the Wonder article and not the Superstars article? –CopperyMarrow15 (talk | edits) Feel free to ping me! 17:10, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

I'll let you all hash it out. I'm tired of wasting time arguing about this completely inconsequential bit of information. It's a complete non-story. A source asks about release timeframes and the answer is that it's a coincidence. There's simply nothing of substance there, and it shocks me to see editors not only want to include it, but totally bloat it out too. It's the sort of thing that is destined to be trimmed out during an inevitable GA/FA effort anyways, so it's not worth the time sink. Sergecross73 msg me 20:24, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

There's... really nothing to discuss here. It's two sentences about how similar games from franchises well known for their historic rivalry came out around the same time. I'm not sure why this is being dragged on and on, because there's absolutely no need for it to. How it's written now is perfectly fine. We don't need to bloat it out at all. JOEBRO⁶⁴ 20:29, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

Even the current version is bloated out, for what it is. It'd be fascinating commentary if it was planned by one of them. Or if Sega blamed Wonder for low sales of Superstars or something. But there's nothing like that here. Sergecross73 msg me 21:28, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

As I have expressed, I think the information fits fine in both articles, and I don't think it's so dreadfully unimportant as to warrant exclusion. Either way, I think I too will step away from the discussion for now. –CopperyMarrow15 (talk | edits) Feel free to ping me! 23:03, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

Metal Fighters

(moved from User talk:TheJoebro64)

Genuinely, what is the problem? It's a four word difference, and it's explicitly stated in the source. You haven't really offered a reason for its removal aside from personal preference. -- Cyberlink420 (talk) 20:54, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

The official name of the robots strikes me as needless and jargony. It doesn't add anything—all the reader needs to know is that they're customizable robots. The fact they're called Metal Fighters in-game isn't very important, and "Metal Fighter" is less concise and understandable than simply "robot", which is clear and impossible to misunderstand. JOEBRO⁶⁴ 21:00, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

I'm indifferent. It's the sort of thing I'd remove when it's added without context (like randomly subbing in "badniks" for enemies without ever defining it) but context was given, and without going on a tangent either, so I don't have an issue. Sergecross73 msg me 21:04, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

Okay, it's been over a week, and the only third-party response was "I don't have an issue", so I'm putting it back. -- Cyberlink420 (talk) 18:13, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

Mixed reception?

How on earth does this game have a mixed reception? A comment justifies that claim by stating that "Only one version has a "favorable" Metascore, and it's also the version with the fewest reviews." But as of this edit, all versions have a 71-75 score range in Metacritic, which is favorable. A mixed score would be in the 50-69 range. Endianer (talk) 16:32, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

We generally go by what aggregators like Metacritic say because otherwise editors edit war over their own personal interpretations. It solves most issues eith your Marios, Zeldas etc. Unfortunately, this is one is one of those weird fluke cases where it's a multiplatform game that seems to straddle the line between versions. The PS5 MC score says "positive" but the the Switch ones says "mixed". Hard to say how to handle this ones (but awkward phrases like "mixed to positive" or whatever is not the way to go.) Sergecross73 msg me 17:26, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

Award Nominations

So basically, The Game Awards 2023 happens and Sonic Superstars is nominated for "Best Family Game". Has there been any other nominations for different organizations like BAFTA or D.I.C.E yet, or should we just add it rn? RebelUltra (talk) 00:02, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Denuvo and Epic Games

If you look at steam and youtube reviews, one of the biggest talking points is denuvo and the epic games launcher being required to play. It led to a review bombing. Shouldn't the article mention this at least in passing under "reception"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:3D09:4782:6400:8D12:96A7:E0A4:E796 (talk) 16:49, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia doesn't document user reviews per WP:USERG. If any professional websites mentioned it (IGN, Eurogamer, etc) then it could be eligible for inclusion maybe though. Sergecross73 msg me 17:14, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

It also uses Hedgehog engine 2 for the digital artbook

The Hedgehog engine (HE2) being used as the digital artbooks: https://gamebanana.com/posts/11210986 Charliephere (talk) 16:32, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Forum posts aren't reliable sources. And even if they were, we wouldn't list the game engine for something trivial like an in-game art book. Sergecross73 msg me 16:52, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Sure, feel free to leave it out of the main bit, but at least put it in the development part of the page, i did and it got reverted Charliephere (talk) 18:41, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

It needs a reliable source to be placed anywhere in the article. Sergecross73 msg me 18:59, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

This is the only site where dataminers actually discussed it, the info is still correct Charliephere (talk) 19:39, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Please see WP:VNT. If there's no reliable source to verify it, we don't document it on Wikipedia. Sergecross73 msg me 20:17, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Fair enough, although the information is correct Charliephere (talk) 21:48, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Fang's name in the west was Nack

This is pretty well known, dont know why this was reverted Charliephere (talk) 16:33, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Exactly. It's pretty well known. So it doesn't need to be explained to the reader. They can click on the link at Fang the Hunter if they want to read more about the history of his name. Sergecross73 msg me 16:54, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Fair, but surely we can just leave tidbit in for people that dont want to go onto other wiki pages Charliephere (talk) 18:40, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Why? You just said yourself its pretty well known. If people are confused about who "Fang the Hunter" is, they can click on the link and learn it immediately. He's not called "Nack" in this game so it doesn't need to be covered here. Sergecross73 msg me 19:29, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

convenient Charliephere (talk) 19:42, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

The rabbit skin has a name

He is referred to as feels by fans, but his potential name was max Charliephere (talk) 16:37, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Thats not even close to a reliable source, but we don't list fan names either way. Sergecross73 msg me 16:49, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Thats from naoto Ohshima's twitter though? Charliephere (talk) 18:39, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

It's not an Oshima tweet, it's a screenshot taken by and uploaded by a random Twitter user of a supposed Oshima DM comment Sergecross73 msg me 19:03, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

iirc they got him to confirm it, or I might be confusing it with the Sonic cd r2 thing Charliephere (talk) 19:41, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Okay, but this sort of sourcing is a huge no-no. Do you know how easy it would be for a random person to create a free social media account and post faked screenshots? Sergecross73 msg me 20:42, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

fair enough, but we know it's him, he's posted selfies on the twitter Charliephere (talk) 21:47, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

The Rabbit became ristar

Here are 2 bits of info on it: https://sega.fandom.com/wiki/Ristar#:~:text=The%20rabbit%20resemblance%20in%20Feel,is%20now%20known%20as%20Ristar. https://tcrf.net/Prerelease:Ristar_(Genesis) Charliephere (talk) 16:44, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

What does this have to do with this article - Sonic Superstars...? We know Ristar was based on an early design for a rabbit character, but we do not know that this particular rabbit design became Ristar. It's original research to suggest this, which isn't allowed on Wikipedia. Sergecross73 msg me 16:46, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

How come the gameplay envisioned for the rabbit is exactly the same as ristars gameplay, its common knowledge that ristar came specifically from this prototype character Charliephere (talk) 18:37, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

I couldn't tell you. Nor can you. Which is the problem. It's a WP:SYNTH issue until we have a reliable source that outright makes this connections and states it. Please see WP:VG/S for a list of sources that are deemed usable. We're looking for something like writers at IGN or Eurogamer, not random tweets or forum posts. Sergecross73 msg me 19:31, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

What about netflix's high score series, iirc they went over the rabbit and its gameplay there Charliephere (talk) 19:41, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

I don't know what that is or what it says. You can present it and it can be reviewed. Sergecross73 msg me 14:26, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

I cant really link it for you, its on netflix and its hard to find the clip on YouTube Charliephere (talk) 15:12, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

Sonic Team is the lead developer

Believe me, Sonic Team is the lead developmeet producer on this game brcause Sonic Team did a lot of the majority production work on this here title. 2601:244:8401:7E10:C797:6D3:ADEA:5681 (talk) 23:48, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for finally deciding to use the talk page. I was going to lock the page from editing if I saw any more edit warring, but wasn't able to warn you if it because you keep IP-hopping.

Now, to the point at hand, we don't go by "trust me" requests from anonymous people on the internet. You need to provide reliable sources that verify your claim or otherwise it's not included on Wikipedia. Sergecross73 msg me 00:24, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Metacritic Reviews Summary

My version of the Metacritic reviews summary keeps getting reverted, even though it follows other modern video game Wikipedia examples.

My version: "The Switch and PlayStation 5 versions of Sonic Superstars received "mixed or average" reviews from critics, while the Xbox Series X/S version received "generally favorable" reviews, according to review aggregator website Metacritic." 2A00:23C6:D584:5B01:DCBD:6371:54A6:A943 (talk) 01:30, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

Yes, I've been confused watching this slow motion edit war on my WP:WATCHLIST. Why does this matter so much to you? Neither version is radically different from how we normally convey this. Is there any other reason you keep pushing for this version? Sergecross73 msg me 02:05, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

I'm just used to seeing "review aggregator" and "Metacritic" being at the end of the sentence because that's what I usually see when looking at other Metacritic reviews summaries. This person keeps reverting my change (and other reasonable changes) I've made to this page, even though I'm just following other Wikipedia examples... 2A00:23C6:D584:5B01:DCBD:6371:54A6:A943 (talk) 02:41, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

Okay, but we don't require 100% parity between articles. Is there actually something wrong with Joe's version? Is there some message it doesn't convey? A shortcoming only present in his version? Anything like that? Sergecross73 msg me 02:51, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

No, his version doesn't have any major problems, but I think my version is better as the game should be at the start of the sentence and Metacritic should be at the end. Even if parity isn't required, I think consistency is for the best. 2A00:23C6:D584:5B01:DCBD:6371:54A6:A943 (talk) 03:11, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

That's all very vague. It doesn't really sound like you have a real reason besides wanting it to be consistent with other articles. If your reason is something beyond that, you need to articulate it better. Sergecross73 msg me 04:12, 16 January 2024 (UTC)