Talk:South African Defence Review 2012

Issues and sources

Discuss issues and sources concerning the respective draft article sections below. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 12:48, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

I propose the following structure for the article as chronological order is recommended by the MOS for historical event subjects. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 09:27, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

The 1998 Defence Review and its consequences

Sources

• le Roux, Len (2003). "The South African National Defence Force and its involvement in the Defence Review process". In Rocklyn Williams; Gavin Cawthra; Diane Abrahams (eds.). Ourselves to know : civil-military relations and defence transformation in Southern Africa (PDF). Pretoria: Institute for Security Studies. pp. 153–169. ISBN 9781919913254.

Issues

• Discuss background of the inadequate previous (1998) review, mismatch with reality and later developments such as many foreign deployments never foreseen in 1998. Problems due to "corporate silo" structure imposed by Deloitte consultants' review. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 12:48, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
• Enlistment terms and conditions based on civil service employment contracts caused large numbers of ineffective over-age lower ranks who could not be discharged. Problems due to high HIV/AIDS incidence. Difficulty getting "fresh, young, fit recruits. No up or out limited term enlistment policy. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 12:48, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
• The "Arms Deal" and it's fallout and consequences - equipment bought but inadequate operational funding. Public perceptions of the SANDF in the light of "grounded aircraft", "ships not going to sea" etc.
• Loss of critical skills to the private sector due to low salaries and racial quota promotion policies.

Mandate and terms of reference

Sources

• "About Defence Review Commitee". Sadefencereview2012.org. 2011-07-13. Retrieved 2014-04-29.
• "Managing vulnerabilities versus strengths major part of the Defence Review: Sisulu". defenceWeb. Retrieved 2014-04-29.
• "The South African Defence Review: a Contrarian Perspective". Africa Portal. 2011-07-14. Retrieved 2014-04-29.

Issues

Review organisation

Sources

Issues

• Need sources for brief descriptions of the people involved. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 10:20, 29 April 2014 (UTC) Done
• Need to find and add information about the functions and roles of the Committee and the Resources group. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 12:02, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
• The members changed during the review process, the list in this article by Engineering News in September 2011 (at the start of the process) is not the same as the current one on the official site. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 12:50, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

First consultative draft

Sources

• "Defence Review 2012 consultative document: overview by Defence Review Committee | Parliamentary Monitoring Group | Parliament of South Africa monitored". Pmg.org.za. 2012-05-10. Retrieved 2014-04-29.

Issues

Public consultation process

Sources

• http://www.sadefencereview2012.org/publications/EXECUTIVE%20SUMMARY%20OF%20CONSULTATIONS%20dd%2020%20July%202012.pdf
• Need sources about the various meetings and events.

Event Sources "Speech by Thandi Modise". 6 August 2013.

Issues

• The Committee went on a "roadshow" to hold public meetings in all the provinces, Done they also invited written submissions. Not done Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 12:51, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
• If the table is correct there was no PPP meeting in the Free State, it needs to be verified. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 14:44, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

Second draft

Sources

Issues

• This is the result of the rewrite after the public consultation process. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 12:48, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
• A second edition of this version was released after some changes, investigate the nature, source and reason for the changes. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 09:22, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

Third draft

Sources

Issues

• Rewrite after input from cabinet/government. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 12:48, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
• Not sure of significant differences between this version and the final draft below. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 12:48, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

Final version

Sources

Issues

• Many mainstream news reports about the cabinet acceptance and referral to parliament so this part is easy to source. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 12:48, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
• Date in the title changed to 2014. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 07:47, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

Research papers

Sources

• "Research Papers". Sadefencereview2012.org. Retrieved 2014-06-22.

Issues

• Not sure if the essays are notable in their own right. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 12:48, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

General sources

The specialist news site DefenceWeb.co.za has dozens, if not hundreds, of articles about the Defence Review. There are so many that the site's own search tool chokes on the result and delivers only 50 hits. Using Google delivers many more but it includes repetitions and false positives in the case of articles about other countries' reviews. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 17:41, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

Another defence specialist website African Armed Forces also has many articles about the Defence Review and related topics. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 13:37, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

A summary of the review by Helmoed Heitman, published by the ISS - http://www.issafrica.org/iss-today/a-new-plan-to-halt-the-downward-spiral-of-the-sa-defence-force The ISS has many other articles on the topic - http://www.issafrica.org/search/?query=Defence%20Review -- Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 13:32, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Many redlinks

@Nathan121212 @Gbawden There's a lot of red in the draft so far - plenty more work for Jimbo's slaves LOL! Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 12:02, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

Crack that whip! Gbawden (talk) 12:23, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

Defence Review 2014?

Is this another review or just a typo from the Government News Agency? [1]. Nathan121212 (talk) 07:01, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

The government "adjusted" the title of the final edition to try to hide the fact that they've left it lying in the bottom drawer for so long. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 07:34, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

Perhaps we should use the title "South African Defence Review 2012-2014" - what do you think? Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 07:45, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

Yes, that should work. Nathan121212 (talk) 10:04, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

Meanwhile, there's still a lot of content that needs to be written... Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 10:56, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

ProveIt not working Comment

I use the tool ProveIt to do my referencing but its not working on this page. Any idea why? Gbawden (talk) 08:51, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

@Gbawden: I don't use ProveIt, but maybe it doesn't work on Draftspace articles? Nathan121212 (talk) 09:42, 7 October 2014 (UTC)