Talk:South Georgia/Archive 1

Archive 1

Requested move 26 February 2017

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not Moved Mike Cline (talk) 15:35, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

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South Georgia Island → South Georgia – Name of island does not include the word "Island". We don't refer to "Tasmania Island" or "Newfoundland Island". Kahastok talk 09:31, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

This is a contested technical request (permalink). William Avery (talk) 10:28, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

• Oppose - Longstanding and intentional distinction between a group of islands and this part of South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands. William Avery (talk) 10:28, 26 February 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose - As per William Avery In ictu oculi (talk) 14:58, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

Note that there was only a redirect here until two days ago. Nothing about this article is "longstanding". You could easily make the case that there's no consensus that it should even exist as anything other than a redirect.

If it were a matter of disambiguation then the article would be at South Georgia (island). But it is difficult to see why disambiguation would be necessary. After all, since this article was created, South Georgia has redirected to it. It's not like there's some kind of distinct political entity of "South Georgia" below the level of South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands, and even if there were there's plenty of precedent for having one article for both: Tasmania does not have separate articles for island and state, nor Corsica for island and region. Kahastok talk 15:25, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

there was an article on the physical main island at this location but it was blanked by an IP, as far as I can see without discussion but there may have been discussion somewhere. It seems counter-intuitive that the small islands have articles but the main island in the grouping doesn't. However the point about Corsica and Tasmania is taken - but then they are not head area of larger entities are they? If that's the solution then merge (in fact delete) this stub. But don't move it to the proposed title. In ictu oculi (talk) 17:50, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

The redirect was created in 2004 and variously tweaked. An article was created on 20 September 2013, and then reverted two weeks later (that it was an IP is not significant). That there was no discussion at the time may be because nobody disputed the revert. It wasn't challenged in any way until last Friday, three and a half years later. The IP can't have a discussion with him/herself.

Is Tasmania the head area of a larger entity? To be honest I've no idea what that is intended to mean. The state of Tasmania does include areas outside the island of Tasmania, such as Flinders Island. OTOH "South Georgia" means the island of South Georgia and no wider area. There is no room for confusion with a larger entity because the larger entity is South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands. South Georgia redirects here, not there.

But even if we concluded that the primary meaning of "South Georgia" includes the South Sandwich Islands, the answer wouldn't be to randomly rename the island as has been done here, it would be to use a disambiguator, i.e. South Georgia (island). This is what is done in the case of Newfoundland (island). Kahastok talk 19:45, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

• Oppose - In addition to the above, there's risk of confusion with the southern portion of the country or of the U.S. state. There's no reason to move it.  ONR  (talk)  23:45, 26 February 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose. Agree with ONR above, South Georgia could very likely refer to either the country or the U.S. state so don't see how this proposed move would be helpful. [1] Zarcadia (talk) 21:34, 28 February 2017 (UTC)

That would presumably be the state of Georgia State and country of Georgia Country, per the logic of keeping this article at South Georgia Island? Kahastok talk 21:48, 28 February 2017 (UTC)

• Or with Georgia in the Caucasus. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 16:29, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

• Support - 1. If the official name doesn't include 'Island' then this word should be omitted.

2. Names which require the word 'Island' are also listed as such, e.g. Heard Island in 'Heard Island & McDonald Islands'.

3. There's a lot of rubbish around & by this I mean that there are many pages with duplicate data which are not properly maintained so that outdated or erroneous stuff can be found on the same subject; these pages are often superfluous or should be merged with the main subject pages. So I'm certainly not promoting the proliferation of separate articles when info can be treated under a main subject header. However, in cases of the examples given (Corsica, Tasmania) the geographical entities & the political/administrative entities are NOT the same subjects. If we want Wiki to be a valuable source of information which can be easily retrieved then separate pages should be created for the islands on one hand & for the administrative divisions on the other. The 'island' pages should contain geographical data & physical aspects while the 'region/state' pages should feature info pertaining to the administrative or political side of the entity (history, ownership, occupation a.s.o.) as well as a list of all the peripheral islands which are part of the entity. Each island which is important enough & for which data is available should have its own page.In this way there will be a clear & neat fashion of storing & retrieving data while keeping everything up to date will also be a lot easier.

4. The confusion issue shouldn't exist at all: it is created by people who have no logic nor consistency. South Georgia is only South Georgia; when talking about the country or the state one should refer to them as 'southern Georgia'. There's West Virginia & western Virginia: this needs no explanation. One can easily say 'southern South Dakota' but not 'South South Dakota': this makes this point very clear. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BeerBuildsBetterBodies (talk • contribs) 14:57, 4 March 2017 (UTC)

• Comment. South Georgia already redirects here. If this is not the primary topic of the term "South Georgia", it should be converted into a dab page.--Cúchullain ^t/c 15:29, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Distance from Zavodovski Island

This article gives the distance between South Georgia and Zavodovski Island as 550 km. The article titled Zavodovski Island gives the distance as 350 km. Old Father Time (talk) 13:58, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

Argentine occupation

How much clarification do we really need about the 1982 invasion? The situation is complicated and is explained in the linked main article. GA-RT-22 (talk) 14:07, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

Redundant Page

Seeing as South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands are governed by one entity, and there is significantly more relevant information about the main island in particular at the main South Georgia and South Sandwich Islands page, why does this exist? It just creates confusion, potentially providing a reader with a fraction of the information. To bring this up to standard requires copying over large chunks of information from the SGSSI page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SG Unicorn (talk • contribs) 18:10, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

This article was split off in 2009. The discussion is at Talk:South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands/Archive 1.

Copying over large chunks is not how we operate. This article as it stands now is fine. The lead has a link to the BOT article. The History and Invasion sections are short, one or two paragraphs, and have hatnotes pointing the reader to the main articles on those subjects. The Geography section is longer and stands on its own, because the geography of South Georgia is not the same as the geography of the South Sandwich Islands.

If you can suggest where the confusion lies, we could work on wording that would address it without duplicating large parts of other articles. GA-RT-22 (talk) 18:44, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

External sources?

ArbieP What is an "External source" exactly? Was material from this source used in writing the article? If so, wouldn't an inline citation be better? Or is it more like Further reading, in which case wouldn't it make more sense to put it in a Further reading section? GA-RT-22 (talk) 21:43, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

OK, done

ArbieP (talk) 21:50, 1 February 2021 (UTC)