Talk:Special Operations Forces (Ukraine)
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A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
editThe following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 17:36, 11 January 2020 (UTC)
Merge with Special forces of Ukraine & Title Change
edit- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
- To not merge as Special Operations Forces (Ukraine) is an independently notable subset of Special forces of Ukraine. Klbrain (talk) 13:49, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
I propose that this page should be merged with Special forces of Ukraine, or vice versa. Not sure which direction to merge, but perhaps the page title should be changed to align more with the official title of "Special Operations Forces of the Armed Forces of Ukraine" (but maybe leave out the "of the Armed Forces" part). - Yaakovaryeh (talk) 23:23, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
- Are you sure that’s right? It looks to me like this article is about a specific brach of service of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, while the other is more of a survey article of special-forces type units in Ukraine, including this one, but also of units within the National Guard, the SBU, Border Guard, and National Police. —Michael Z. 15:42, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
- Oh, maybe you're right... but that is confusing. The first sentence defines this article as being about "the special forces of Ukraine" rather than one of several. Perhaps we should change the title and first sentence to "Special Operations Forces of the Armed Forces of Ukraine" (which anyways seems to be the official title and translation of the Ukrainian text), as well as add WP:DISAMBIG templates. (Also, I'm a bit confused by the other articles usage of the term "special forces" to refer to specialized non-military units. Specialized non-military units like SWAT, the FBI's HRT & CIRG, and even the CIA's SAC/SOG, are generally not referred to as "special forces", which refers specifically to special military forces.) - Yaakovaryeh (talk) 04:47, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
- I think most of all of these are classified together. Certainly the National Guard and FSB units are undertaking military operations now. —Michael Z. 03:16, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
- That does not make them part of the Ministry of Defense, if you think it does then please provide the sources.Degen Earthfast (talk) 13:47, 28 August 2022 (UTC)
- I think most of all of these are classified together. Certainly the National Guard and FSB units are undertaking military operations now. —Michael Z. 03:16, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
- Oh, maybe you're right... but that is confusing. The first sentence defines this article as being about "the special forces of Ukraine" rather than one of several. Perhaps we should change the title and first sentence to "Special Operations Forces of the Armed Forces of Ukraine" (which anyways seems to be the official title and translation of the Ukrainian text), as well as add WP:DISAMBIG templates. (Also, I'm a bit confused by the other articles usage of the term "special forces" to refer to specialized non-military units. Specialized non-military units like SWAT, the FBI's HRT & CIRG, and even the CIA's SAC/SOG, are generally not referred to as "special forces", which refers specifically to special military forces.) - Yaakovaryeh (talk) 04:47, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
Oppose- The Special forces of Ukraine is an article of all of the special-forces type units in Ukraine, both military and paramilitary, while Special Operations Forces (Ukraine) is about a specific branch of service of the Ukrainian Armed Forces.Degen Earthfast (talk) 13:47, 28 August 2022 (UTC)
Strength
editRegarding this edit: [1], I fail to see anything about 5,000 in the source. Also we should reflect the actual strength, not some "authorized" figure, and IISS is actually pretty reputable source.--Staberinde (talk) 10:59, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
- article already states SSO had a strength level of 4,000 by 2021 and a further increase in end strength by 2022. Ukr government in this case is a better source than ISS. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Goggo2022 (talk • contribs) 11:44, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
- Please provide Ukrainian government source explicitly stating that Special Operations Forces have strength of 5,000. You can't simply do your own math by combining numbers in some old sources and adding up some new numbers, this is WP:SYNTH and is not allowed.--Staberinde (talk) 12:42, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
- Also I would note that strength authorized by law and real strength are different things. We should provide real numbers.--Staberinde (talk) 13:29, 7 May 2022 (UTC)