Talk:Shred guitar

This is NOT a LIST ARTICLE

Please refrain from adding more names to the list, which is only REPRESENTATIVE. There is no need for any single name to be added to the list. The point was to exemplify the category of Shredders and of players who use shredding on their playing. If we start to add names to this article, then we will end up with something like the Virtuoso article, which needed to be split in the article itself and List of virtuosi performers, and this one is risking deletion (in fact, was voted for deletion already). Regards Loudenvier 12:47, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

I added Yngwie J. Malmsteen's first name, since he is well known.

He was already cited as being the most influential guitarrist, there were no need to wikify his name, but it won´t hurt the overall article :-) Loudenvier 14:16, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

"metal players who shred excessively, such as Malmsteen" - isn't this highly opinionated?

edited to "metal players who aim to shred excessively", removing Malmsteen as he is the only one of the three mentioned guitarists who does not seek recognition for shredding excessively.

Bainzy 11:15, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

The term came about a lot earlier than people like Malmsteen. The term "Shredding" was used for Van Halen in '78. The whole article seems really inacurate.

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It seems like many people believe that any fast guitar playing is shredding (ie. A video of Django Reinhardt on youtube, he plays a quick chromatic run up the neck, and there are many comments like "The originial shredder!"). Guitarists have been playing fast for hundreds of years, shredding itself is a style of playing, not playing fast.

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I fully agree, so where to start. Who defined shredding? Allan Holdsworth? In my point of view he could be a good starting point, new revolutionary technique, distorted sound, progressive rock. He is listed as influence by Van Halen, "He's the best in my book". Listen to the "Gong" recordings ... first thing like that I can find in my guitar archive. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bschumann (talk • contribs) 04:09, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Despite doing his best work on violin, Nicolo Pagannini--who also played and composed for guitar--could be considered the original shredder. How much of his work was and is still being used as formative material for shredders. Watch Josh Bloom play some of his stuff and it will fall within the definition of shredding as defined here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.127.181.211 (talk) 15:40, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

Home Shredding?

"It can also be argued that advances in technology in home recording and programmable bass/drum machines have led to a surge in the number of amateur guitarists releasing instrumental/shred albums on the internet, as they remove the high costs of studio recording and the need for a full band."

How is this related to a particular playing style? I am removing this until someone can provide with a reference or source, if there is any merit at all into this information. 194.219.45.241 00:55, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Have you ever seen the guitar website Guitar9.com? Look at all the albums made on there by the amateur guitarists being described, or look at the reviews on Shredaholic and The Shred Zone.... 81.179.111.116 12:57, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

I think this is a good point. In my opinion, this is the second wave of shred guitar. The first wave was mainly from commercial companies or independant labels and arose from Mike Varney / Shrapnel Records and the discovery of Yngwie Malmsteen. The second wave has been because of the growth of digital recording and web site technologies including specialist guitar record shops like guitar9 have added to this. All of which has decreased the entry cost for players to get noticed and make a living from their playing. Indeed the growth of YouTube and Myspace has lead to the decrease in entry cost for any guitarist to get heard by wave of video footage often taken in their own home. However, I'm not sure how you would word this in this wiki pedia item.

Suggested Cleanup

This article is getting almost as ridiculous as some late 80s shredding ;), we could really do without people splitting hairs about the things described in the article and have them start to put in more effort towards making the article conform to Wikipedia standards.

Also, instead of including your favourite artist that happened to play a fast solo once in 1996, try to improve the section on the actual techniques descriptions and expand them. Those are the most important part of the article, not what bands are using them.

Tried to comform to NPOV

In my clean-up, I included a small part about the criticism sometimes attributed to shredding. This was only to expand on all the known facts about the genre — good or bad (the part about Techniques was also cleaned up heavily by me). However, I'd like to state that I myself am both a fan of shredding but sometimes also dislike the excessive stuff from Fareri/Cooley, etc. With that said, I didn't want the article to sound biased so I didn't go into too much detail about it because otherwise it might start bordering on non-NPOV. Anyway, hopefully it's alright now. --Marco —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 172.200.44.131 (talk) 09:05, 12 December 2006 (UTC).

Tagged article as it still reads like unreferenced peacock fancruft. It's very close to a PROD and, lacking sources for any grand length of time may wind up AfD'd. 156.34.231.188 23:27, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Stupidest article that I've ever seen

So this is suppose to be an article ??? Shred Guitar?? You kids are really stupid.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.106.105.187 (talk) 23:26, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

• The article as it currently stands needs work (including references) but shred guitar (or shredding) is a known technique. To call contributors to an article "stupid" just because the article needs some work may be considered by some a personal attack.
• I'm not currently in a position to spend time finding reliable sources to add to the article, however, students studying The Associate of Arts in Performance (Guitar) program with the Musicians Institute can take an elective course in Shred Guitar, just as they can take one in Acoustic Guitar, Classical Guitar, Rhythm Guitar, Lead Guitar, etc. [1] —TheJC (Talk • Contribs • Count) 13:28, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Visit youtube if you want to see the modern use of shredding. It is parody. All parody. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.212.3.201 (talk) 20:03, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Shred guitar is not a "technique". It's a style of playing that incorporates many techniques.

John Myung Uses 3 fingers, not 4

the entry at the end was incorrect, even in his instructional video myung mentions he uses the first three fingers of his right hand to play, so i changed it.Leif edling (talk) 16:09, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Difficult nature of the term 'shred guitar'

the difficulty facing contributors is that 'shred guitar' isn't a definite musical technical term; it's a fairly subjective cultural/critical one. the sources i have contain differing opinions from various (respected) players. the subjective nature of the term needs to be made a bit clearer. furthermore, as i see it (and i think the debate within the talk page reflects this) is that there is 'shredding' as in playing fast; 'shred' as a style of playing (which i guess this article is intended to be about), mainly characterised (unsurprisingly) by fast, flashy passages; and 'shred' as an alternative term for a set of genres (or 1 genre with a few subgenres) encomapassing neoclassical rock/metal, EVH influenced (usually instrumental) rock (satch, vai, gilbert) and post-80s instrumental rock (buckethead, bumblefoot...). i do think all three (loose) definitions are within the scope of an article entitled 'shred guitar' however; even if thinking about how to explain it all gives me headache... Bridies (talk) 23:08, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

The biggest problem with this article is that it gets over run with "young'ns" who think that all the "Yngwilly Dingwilly" guitarists of the neo-classical metal age are faster or somehow 'better' than the Rock, Country Blues and Jazz guitarists that came before them. Hard rockers and Prog rockers were "shredding" (with more skill and taste) than any of Mike Varney's "Schrapnel Clan" that came out of the "post-Eddie" boom. And there are no heavy metal shredders that can hold a candle to any Bluegrass, Country or Jazz "shredders" that have been rippin' the maple off of fingerboards for 75 years. Trying to keep that neutral balance in this article is near to impossible because of all the newbs who think that nobody knew how to "shred" prior to Yngwie showing up(off). I remember seeing s 17 year Shawn Lane doing stuff that Vinnie Moores and Tony Macs and Paul Gilberts would be praised for as innovative a full 10 years later. POV vs Realty vs fantasy is a long drawn out teeter-totter on this page. There are all kinds of articles about "guitar technique". Sweep picking, hybrid picking, tapping... shredding... they should all just be lumped into one article and kill as much cruft as possible. 156.34.214.181 (talk) 23:56, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

i've started drafting some revisions which will hopefully address some of the issues as well as provide a bit more info Bridies (talk) 00:41, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Cool. More Jazz, Country, Bluegrass, 'facts' and less neo-classical "Yngwie/Eddie-crufting" would be great. As Rik Emmett so brilliantly labelled it.... "dwiddly-dwiddly" playing. Speaking of ol' Rik... there's a guy that can play circles around the Vinnies/Tonys/Yngwies/Martys/Rustys/etc. I don't seem to recal seing his name mentioned anywhere in the article? Just shows how unreliable the page really is. Some cleanup with some valid citations (and not All Music Guide... they had out crufty unencyclopedic peacock adjectives to guitar players like its water) will be great for this page. 156.34.214.181 (talk) 00:59, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

The term shred refers to playing so fast that the fingers shred the wood off of the neck (metaphorically). Things like sweep picking, legato hammer ons and pull offs and alternate picking are all techniques when executed fast, constitute shredding.

One issue I'm seeing on this page is that the term has been coined in recent years, after many of those country, bluegrass and fusion players have hit the scene so they are not typically associated with the term. But, there can be no doubt that players from those genres play fast enough to remove wood from their fret boards.

Finally, let's not get wrapped up with opinions of who is and who isn't a shredder, let's just say that quick playing constitutes shredding and leave it at that. Mpesta (talk) 21:13, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Bass shredding

Just wish there could be some clarification about shredding on the bass...there is just one line currently, that too without citation/s, that just names billy sheehan...arguments may also be put forth for the inclusion of players such as john myung or joey demaio into the list. Just wish the section could be expanded with clarity.Leif edling (talk) 17:35, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

The entire article can tend to lean towards WP:LC vios when everyone wants to get their POV favourite in. Joey DiMaio was in the section at one point but I think it was rm'd because it was uncited peacocking. Sheehans name always pops up as the most obvious example of bass shredding (or showboating) There are certainly others that could be included if they had some sort of verifiable ref and it was somehow pertinent to the context/content of the article. There has to be some point to mentioning them other than just list-crufting. Did that player do something no one else had done before? Are they cited as a prime example/influence/innovator of some sort of bass shredding technique? Just simply listing them for the sake of fanboyism doesn't help the article any. John Entwistles name isn't mentioned in the article and he is the king grand-daddy of all bass shredders. It would be nice to expand that section. But don't just make it a glorified fan favourite list. Give it some concrete content. 156.34.142.110 (talk) 19:32, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Its only due to the lack of citations that so many bassists are omitted and i wouldnt like to add any without proper citations. But as sheehan's name has no citations either, it shud be removed as well. If proper citations are found, even john entwistle may be included (as the person above me mentions). The bottom line, really, is that shredding is pretty much subjective and the word itself is not the best way to describe fast players. It seems almost analogous to having a wikipedia article for "fast guitar"! The overwhelming lack of references to bass shredding on the internet itself tells one that the word shred, as per the music that has been made to date, is pretty much inapplicable for the bass guitar.Leif edling (talk) 17:36, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Error in opening paragraph

"sweep-picked arpeggios, diminished minor harmonic scales, finger-tapping and ...wang-bar abuse"

There is no such thing as "diminished minor" (a diminished interval being either a perfect or a minor interval decreased by a half-tone)Isn't "wang-bar" supposed to be "whammy-bar"? I have never heard of a 'wang-bar'...- it *should* read 'sweep-picked apreggios, diminished and harmonic minor [not: minor harmonic] scales, finger-tapping and...whammy-bar abuse". I have therefore made the appropriate change. 62.238.248.137 (talk) 10:47, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Keyboard shredding

This also needs to be mentioned. It's basically really fast playing on an keyboard, often using the pitch wheel or a pedal of some sort to bend pitch or simulate other guitar effects. At least unless there's an article on shredding in general. Or maybe remove the guitar from the title of this one? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Blue bear sd (talk • contribs) 02:27, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

That would be good in a keyboard related page... if it had citations from a reliable source. But this is a guitar(bass) article which is created/written/maintained for that sole purpose and the mention of keyboards anywhere isn't required. The Real Libs-speak politely 02:31, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Removal of bass shredding?

A comprehensive search of the internet reveals no pages citing billy sheehan (or any other bassist, for that matter) as a shredder. In fact, the whole idea of shredding on the bass is scarcely found on the net. I believe the part should be removed as it contains a single and that too unrferenced line.Leif edling (talk) 16:39, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

What about Cliff Burton?68.238.201.198 (talk) 20:04, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Buckethead

The article lacks shred history of the last 20 years, except for that 2003 Guitar One Top 10 list. Buckethead is one of the shred icons of those years, especially because of his sophisticated two-hand tapping. User:Bridies (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) keeps removing his name from the article, though several sources name him for being important: [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12]...--Avant-garde a clue-hexaChord² 21:21, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

The sources you provided mentioned his name but they did not contain any statement to the effect of 'Buckethead has further developed the genre of shred'. Please quote me the exact parts of the various articles you were deriving the statement 'Buckethead has developed the genre further'? One of those sources does support the claim, more or less, so I have used it to replace the citation. Next time I suggest you find an article that actually supports the claim you're making rather than providing several that don't, before leaving me to sift through several more in attempt to compensate for your lack of reading comprehension. bridies (talk) 21:32, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Well, I ask myself why I added a source in the first place since the following Guitar One source from 2003 should sufficiently back up the statement. It can't be my fault that you do not like Matt Williams' book or several newspaper articles or - what I strongly guess - the guitarist himself. We did have these issues before, right?. We can keep up this game, I have sources enough for you to choose from...--Avant-garde a clue-hexaChord² 21:55, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

p.s.: If [13] is not good enough for you why then [14] or [15]? (BTW: [16] - this even I did not cite as a reliable source - someone else did and you accepted it...) Boy, please give me a lesson in double standard. Please!--Avant-garde a clue-hexaChord² 22:09, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Actually, I love Buckethead ;) But that's irrelevant. What is also is irrelevant is how many Buckethead articles you can link. I want to know explicitly what statement(s) in those sources you are equating with 'Buckethead developed the genre (of shred) further', because with the exception of the one I put in, none of them say that explicitly. The Williams book is self-published, and thus not reliable. bridies (talk) 22:23, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Also, I cannot be expected to pick up on every piece of crap that is added to the article. Most likely that source was added when I was inactive. bridies (talk) 22:27, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Impellitteri and Malmsteen

I added Yngwie Malmsteen and Chris Impellitteri's ranking as they are usually listed within the top 3 positions of many fastest shredder lists. Also, in the Guitar One article titled "Top 10 Fastest Shredders of all Time" Chris Impellitteri is the featured picture out of all 10 guitarists. Lastly, the fastest guitarist category was probably initiated by Impellitteri's influence since he was the first guitar player to be branded as the fastest guitarist in the world by Kerang Magazine in 1987. .

References

Merge from Speed guitar

A new article called "speed guitar" has been created which appears to be covering the same topic and as such should be merged. -- Whpq (talk) 13:06, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Merge or Silence?

I am the writer of the speed guitar article which I continue to repost due to a certain CambridgeBayWeather replacing the entire contents of my article with a redirect to this shred guitar page. I have spent quite a bit of time doing research to come up with the speed guitar page content and believe it to be accurate, up to date, and concise. On the other hand, the shred guitar page has the following problems: (1) shred guitar is only a slang term for speed guitar, i.e., most speed guitar players do not even use the term "shred", and when it is used, it is like using the term Chevy rather than Chevrolet, (2) there are errors on the shred guitar page that the author of that page refuses to correct - there errors consist of at least incorrect usage of musical theory terms, a definite indication that the writer of that article has never played guitar or studied it in the least. On the other hand, I am willing to offer a complete remake of the shred guitar page to include the article content that I have written for my speed guitar article, but I cannot tolerate simplistic mindsets that I have seen exposed here at this site of just erasing article content altogether. Thank you, Benny Michigan

Benny, Wikipedia policy is clear, if "shred guitar is only a slang term for speed guitar" then they are one and the same thing and there should only be one page. The spirit of Wikipedia is that if you have further verifiable information to add you should add it here on the pre-existing article. If you want to suggest changing the article title then start a debate.

Personally I think speed guitar is a much wider topic and shred is a subset. Tapping is part of speed guitar but not part of shred, for example. Stub Mandrel (talk) 15:35, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

Twelve string guitars

Twelve string guitars are not applicable for shredding. They aren't used to extend the toal range of the guitar but to give it a fuller sound by doubling each of the six usual strings with a string in the same tuning or an octave above. they are mostly used for lyrical campfire session but i want to see someone who shreds on them... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.73.229.116 (talk) 13:59, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

John McLaughlin; Larry Coryell; Philip Catherine; Ralph Towner. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.206.185.142 (talk) 04:45, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

Or listen to Eight Miles High by the Byrds. Stub Mandrel (talk) 15:36, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

Music and GIF

It would be great if we could add at least a GIF to each article; that way we could stop discussing about how to best describe the technique. And if there could be a sound example, priceless. —Preceding unsigned comment added by WLoku (talk • contribs) 23:14, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Strongly agreed. I can find and provide free images, if needed, but you'd need to leave a note on my talk page. --Leahtwosaints (talk) 16:19, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Possible good reference

From Guitar One magazine, there is a reference here:

• Lists of shredders with biography pieces, too --Leahtwosaints (talk) 16:18, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Shred

As someone who lived through the early times of "shred" I can tell you this article is completely wrong.

First of all, shred refers to one thing really... very fast and under control alternate and sweep picking, usually used in the context of metal guitar playing and solos. It has nothing to do with tremolo dive bombing or tapping.

The term originates from descriptions of Yngwie J Malmsteen's early playing (example: "hot on your heels" intro), in which he, with great control (in terms of picking/note clarity and also the ability to speed up or slow down instantly giving his playing a sense of movement and flow, a falling and soaring feel as opposed to just a passage or section of fast notes), speed picks lines at very high velocity, creating clearly articulated cascading flows of notes. Like a "shredded" flow of sound. As well, his picking often produced an audible click and when he played at high velocity it literally sounded like the pick and string were being shredded as the notes flowed. 68.161.196.206 (talk) 11:35, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

History

For some reason it seems to start in 1974 with a few magazine quotes of how great the shredding is from Ulrich Roth. Not describing the actual history. Most people in the know about this area will agree the history of shredding started well before. It would be better describing the pioneers doing it in its earliest forms (I'm not up on who, so won't edit it!) I personally think parts of the solo in The Kinks' You Really Got Me (1964) is an earlier, slower form (this is apparently confirmed to be Dave Davies, not Jimmy Page). There's probably earlier examples. Also, Jimmy Page himself isn't even mentioned. Ritchie Blackmore gets mentioned but only later on with Van Halen and Al Di Meola. I totally agree with the above that fret-tapping and dive bombs are irrelevant to this.

Marty Sept 6th 2011 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.178.40.144 (talk) 21:57, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

EQUIPMENT:

Changed the following sentence to include a reference to include the cello. I spent a few hours with Uli last February and discussed the nature and reasoning behind his customized guitar. He added a lower B-string to facilitate the playing of notes that would normally fall in the range of the cello. Also of note, all notes on his guitar beyond the 30th fret are no longer chromatic and require a modified cross-picking pattern technique to avail notes that would normally lie chromatically. Finally, Uli uses a scalloped neck with the exception of the first 4 or 5 frets which use a standard fretboard contour. When asked why he told us that he does most of his chord work on the first 5 frets. His reason for using a scalloped neck for shreddingis because a scalloped neck allows the player to fret a note without actually having to bottom-out the finger directly against the fretboard. He claims that an added benefit of the use of a scalloped neck is that it teaches the player not use too much strength and pressure with the left hand as not to expend unnecessary energy. Makes sense, saving on energy that is available from more speed. What can anyone say about a genius or his methods?

Some shred guitarists, such as Scorpions' Ulrich Roth, have used custom-made tremolo bars and developed modified instruments, such as Roth's "Sky Guitar, that would greatly expand his instrumental range, enabling him to reach notes previously reserved in the string world for cellos and violins."[1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.127.181.211 (talk) 15:21, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

This won't be a serious article as long as it fails to explain Jimi Hendrix's influence. Rp (talk) 11:35, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Full Shred

Should this article explain the concept of Full Shred in contrast to ordinary shredding? Or is it worthy of an article of it own? Stub Mandrel (talk) 18:09, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

Hi Stub Mandrel, Would you have some sources describing full shred that we could use to inform a decision? - Ryk72 ^'c.s.n.s.' 00:05, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

Full Shred is a range of pickups etc. by Seymour Duncan specially designed for 'shred-style' guitarists. Stub Mandrel (talk) 15:29, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

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"speed guitar"?

I have never heard "speed guitar" used in reference to shredding. I first encountered the term in the liner notes of Tubular Bells, referring to Mike Oldfield's doubling the tape speed of some guitar breaks, as Les Paul did with songs such as "Mandolino" and Jerome Smith (KC and the Sunshine Band) later used all through "Get Down Tonight." Yet though speed guitar never appears in this article, Speed guitar redirects here.
Weeb Dingle (talk) 21:08, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

Oldfield calls it "double speed guitar" though. 2001:9E8:4614:E00:4C4B:D0EE:E189:EFFC (talk) 08:10, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

Lede vs topic of article

The lede of this article suffers from the common wikipedia problem of focusing on the term rather than trying to define what the article is about. Since "shred guitar" has a number of definitions, the lede should just define it using the definition used in the rest of the article. Other alternate definitions should appear in the disambiguation line at the top. This would go a long way towards clarifying the article itself and avoid tedious mentions of the fact that all terms are art are used in looser senses by the general public. 85.149.13.48 (talk) 11:40, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

Needs Update

Would be nice to have this updated with YouTube/Instagram/Prog guitarists like Martin Miller, Rick Graham, Tom Quayle, Plini, Tosin Abasi, Tim Henson, Scott LePage 2600:1702:50:5150:4D36:3379:B8F3:6909 (talk) 02:59, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

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