Talk:Spitakashen, Martuni

Requested move 21 December 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: No consensus. Since WP:NOTAVOTE, I am looking at the arguments made and neither side has convincingly shown what is the common name of this place in English (non-admin closure) (t · c) buidhe 20:54, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

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Ağkənd, Khojavend → Spitakashen, Martuni – Move to "Spitakashen, Martuni" per WP:AT/WP:COMMONNAME:

Results from Google: Spitakashen: 7,990 Ağkənd: 1,600 Aghkend: 71

Results from Google Scholar: Spitakashen: 1 Ağkənd: 1 Aghkend: 0

The ", Martuni" disambiguation tag is based on the Soviet-era Martuni District (NKAO).

AntonSamuel (talk) 14:51, 21 December 2020 (UTC)—Relisting. Ⓩⓟⓟⓘⓧ _Talk 18:39, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

Oppose. Using divisions of abolished autonomous oblast that hasn't existed since the 1991 is absurd. The village is internationally recognised as being part of Khojavend District of Azerbaijan, therefore it should be Spitakashen, Khojavend to fit WP:CONSISTENT, as almost every single article about villages in the former Martuni District, that are now in Khojavend District. — CuriousGolden (T·C) 15:10, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

Taking into account that Nagorno-Karabakh is a long-disputed region, the Soviet administrative divisions that existed before the First Nagorno-Karabakh War are useful and suitable per WP:NPOV. AntonSamuel (talk) 15:23, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

It being disputed does not mean that we're supposed to use divisions that haven't been used by any single organization or country since its abolishment in 1991. Not even Artsakh uses NKAO borders for districts. WP:NPOV doesn't advocate for us to use historical districts for modern villages. — CuriousGolden (T·C) 15:33, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

The Administrative divisions of the Republic of Artsakh pretty much completely follow the outline of the Soviet districts. AntonSamuel (talk) 15:37, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

Really? Do I need to mention the fact that it splits up Agdam District between the 3 neighbouring former NKAO provinces and gives countless bits of lands from other districts to the new Artsakh provinces? Even if it were aligned, then that'd be breaking WP:NPOV since we'd be using districts of an internationally unrecognised breakaway republic. — CuriousGolden (T·C) 15:41, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

• Support - per my belief that town names should be whatever the 1988 majority ethnic group prefers. --RaffiKojian (talk) 18:12, 21 December 2020 (UTC)
• Relisting comment I am relisting to try to generate more discussion. Ⓩⓟⓟⓘⓧ _Talk 18:39, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose its de-jure in Azerbaijan I think it must keep the Azerbaijani name. Carthago814 (talk) 19:37, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose multiple Spitakashens exist. The Google search here doesn't identify the common name. Also, using a division that collapsed three decades ago is a joke. --► Sincerely: SolaVirum 21:08, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Hatnote

@Laurel Lodged: Re [1]. Hatnotes need to be properly formatted and comply with WP:HATNOTE. Spitakashen does not redirect here and the article title is not ambiguous. A reader is not going to land here looking for Spitakashen, Hadrut. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 11:02, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

@Shhhnotsoloud: what makes it unlikely? Laurel Lodged (talk) 11:47, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

@Laurel Lodged: Sorry to turn your question around, but what makes it likely? Under what circumstances would a reader who really wanted Spitakashen, Hadrut end up here? Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 11:53, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

@Shhhnotsoloud: Have a look at the Google results above. Laurel Lodged (talk) 13:24, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

@Laurel Lodged: I don't understand your point. The title of this article Ağkənd, Khojavend is not ambiguous and neither are any of the incoming redirects Ağkənd, Khojavend; Agkend, Khojavend; Agkand, Khojavend; or Spitakashen, Martuni. Spitakashen does not redirect here. A hatnote is required if a reader lands on this page but is really looking for something else, and I'm struggling to see how that might happen. Please give me a specific example, or restore my original edit. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 19:32, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

When you enter "Spitakashen" into the search box, 3 options appear: "Spitakashen, Hadrut", "Spitakashen, Martuni", "Spitakşen". The "Spitakashen, Martuni" results in an unexpected redirect to Ağkənd, Khojavend. Such a jarring move needs to be explained in a hat note. Laurel Lodged (talk) 12:37, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

OK. Hopefully my revised hatnote is acceptable to you. Thanks, Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 11:45, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

That version is acceptable. Thank you. Laurel Lodged (talk) 12:11, 1 September 2021 (UTC)