Talk:Star Trek (1971 video game)

A few corrections

I am not sure about the best way to update the page for this. I have BASIC Computer Games (Microcomputer Edition) Edited by David H. Ahl, Program Conversions by Steve North, Workman Publishing, New York. Copyright 1978 Creative Computing, ISBN 0-89480-052-3. Page 157-163 contain the description and listing to a version of Super Star Trek. The first section is "Brief History" and states:

Many versions of Star Trek have been kicking around various college campuses since the late sixties. I recall playing one at Carnegie-Mellon Univ. in 1967 or 68, and a very different one at Berkeley. However, these were a far cry from the one written by Mike Mayfield of Centerline Engineering and/or Custom Data. This was written for an HP2000C and completed in October 1972. It became the 'standard' Star Trek in February 1973 when it was put in the HP contributed program library and onto a number of HP Data Center machines.

The bottom of page 157 also lists that Star Trek is trademark of Paramount Pictures Corporation and was used by permission of Paramount. - ExileInParadise (talk) 04:04, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

I have a few quibbles, but its been so long since I've played this I'm not sure enough to update the article. First of all, isn't calling this "hacker lore" an anachronism. I believe the early 70's had nerds, but not hackers. And I don't remember there being any planetary exploration. Are you sure that was in the original? I also don't remember anything about an experimental death ray. --JeffW 19:46, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

The term "hacker" has been used to refer to electronic hobbyists since WWII, when parts were routinely removed from military surplus equipment with hacksaws, axes, sledgehammers and other delicate tools. The term merged with software hackers in the late 1960s. Kid Bugs (talk) 21:33, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

I removed references to planetary exploration. You are correct that they were not a part of the original text game. - Chris Nystrom (May 23, 2007)

I played this game on a DEC 10 terminal in 1974, using computer time which I was supposed to be using in an educational manner. I was later shocked to see it running on a mini-computer (sat on a big stand, but was a cube), probably a VAX. Anyway, stars were asterisks (of course!), space came quantized in dots, the Enterprise was a an E which could rotate freely for free, but took energy to move. Klingons were K's and starbases were B's. Neither K's nor B's moved. Torpedos could and did run into stars. I can't remember if this took out the star or not, but it definitely wasted a torpedo. So you had to move your E till you had a straight shot at a K in your sector, with no star between. You could torpedo a Kingon or hit your own base, so you had to be careful. There were only a few bases, so you had to keep track of them since you couldn't see them except when you were in the same quadrant with them. Again, THERE WERE NO PLANETS. The whole thing was outragously addictive, considering the minimal content. SBHarris 07:10, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

In 1976 we played this game on an IBM 5100. I loved the game, but quickly became tired of making a grid on a piece of paper to keep track of the quadrants I had explored and where the bases and Klingons were. I rewrote the program and added a "Q" (Quadrant Display) option. Now I could play the game without a piece of paper and see where the bases and Klingons were. It would only display the quadrants I had already visited, so it was not cheating. (Gerhard Sammet 7/30/2008)

Yes, it was, yes it was. Cheater, cheater!! There's a special place in the nether regions for people like you who used paper and pencil support for terminal-based computer games. SBHarris 05:57, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Oops, almost forgot why I came to the Talk page in the first place.

Listing in the Info box "Media: Floppy disk" is inaccurate. Most of the versions of the game in the 1970s ran totally from system RAM, so it did not require access to non-volatile storage like floppy disks. In fact, due to the very high expense of floppy drives prior to the 1980s, most users would have typed in the program from hard copy and saved the program to tape media.

Probably the least confusing thing to do would be to remove the "Media" entry altogether. Kid Bugs (talk) 21:43, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Merge proposal

Merge, SST is indeed an offshoot of this game, and should definitely be merged in. Maury Markowitz (talk) 15:34, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

It would slip in quite nicely in the variants section, once the "screen shot" is removed, there isn't much in the way of text left. Alastairward (talk) 18:10, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Powershell conversion

Simply for nostalgic purposes I'm really enjoying converting the HP 2000 source into Powershell. I remember playing this on an old model 43 teletype and while it didn't strike my at the time (1974ish), looking back I'm amazed at how much paper I wasted playing this game during my lunch break in high school. My first pass at the conversion while challenging is to make as few modifications to the data structures as possible. Once I have a better understanding of all the features and logic I hope my interest will continue to create a retro web app, text based version and then perhaps a modern 3-D version. This game was probably one of the strongest influences in steering me down an enjoyable career path in programming and IT in general. I've used this technique of writing games to learn several programming languages. I get a higher level of satisfaction and motivation in this method over the boring, static examples used in many programming training materials. Rlinhartpdx (talk) 15:27, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Programmable HP 35 calculator?

The article refers to Mike Mayfield obtaining an HP-35 calculator and seeking assistance in programming it. The problem with this statement is that the HP Model 35, released in 1972, was not programmable. The first Hewlett-Packard programmable pocket calculator was the HP-65, introduced in 1974. Mayfield's first version of the game was programmed in Sigma BASIC on an SDS Sigma 7 computer in 1971, using a stolen account [sic] at U.C. Irvine. It was ported to HP Time Sharing BASIC on an HP 2000C time sharing system in late 1972 and made available by Hewlett-Packard as a Contributed Program as "STTR1" in their HP BASIC Program Library. Yes, I know that Mayfield has written about "programming" an HP-35 in his reminiscences about the game, but it's possible that his memory was getting a bit faulty about the details more than three decades later. — Quicksilver^{T @} 21:22, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Best listing of STTR1 source code

Probably the best listing of the HP 2000 Time-Sharing BASIC code for Mike Mayfield's original Star Trek game in the HP Contributed Library (STTR1) can be obtained from the Bitsavers archive, in the Z905 branch of the tar.gz archive file. (At a whopping 18.6 kB in size and 641 lines of code, it was one of the larger programs in the library!) It appears to have been slightly processed from the paper listing that was available for ring binders from Hewlett-Packard, in that non-printing control characters are shown as '10 for LF (line feed). HP 2000 BASIC allowed insertion of these symbols directly in text strings, with the unfortunate result that printout behavior while the program was running didn't necessarily reflect the source code listing. If one is interested in precisely replicating the output of the game in a modern software implementation without access to an HP 2000/Access system, such information is vital. It is also useful to refer to the HP 2000/Access BASIC Reference Manual to illuminate how formatted output using the IMAGE syntax worked. — Quicksilver^{T @} 23:13, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Broken Links

In the References section there is an entry for SST2K with a URL of http://sst.berlios.de/. berlios.de is gone, but the code was taken over by sourceforge. The new link is http://sourceforge.net/projects/sst2k/ if anyone wants to update it in the References section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dispersedoubt (talk • contribs) 16:49, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

Removing mention of CGW

This article used to have a ref to CGW that talked about earlier versions of Trek from the 1960s. I am certain that this is simply copied from 101 Computer Games, where Alh mentions these versions. But these are not the same game - as Ahl eluded to but did not detail, these were actually versions of Spacewar!. I have moved the CGW mention to the Notes section. Maury Markowitz (talk) 21:04, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

"text game"

I think the moniker "text game" evokes a wrong impression. I for one immediately thought of the old adventure games. I'd like to argue that "character graphics" would be a better term to describe the game display. --BjKa (talk) 11:54, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

It certainly isn't a "video game", which gives the impression of moving graphics with which the player interacts in real time. Come on, this program was played on teletypes and on "glass teletypes" at 300 bps. Jeh (talk) 16:18, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

It was definitely not a video game. I went through quite a bit of paper, and the reverse side of paper playing this game. —Danorton (talk) 17:30, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

Disambiguation

I'm not convinced that "1971 video game" is the best way to disambiguate this. For one thing, it was originally played on paper terminals, not VDTs. I'm not sure what the best way to go is, though. Any other thoughts? --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 19:51, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

Move it to "Star Trek (early computer game)". Let the description fill in the rest. Jeh (talk) 16:19, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

External links modified (January 2018)

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Faerie Queene

The "Faerie Queene" does not appear in any version of SST I can find, nor earlier versions from the HP era. I would remove it entirely as I cannot find any references to it, but I'll leave it for now until someone can provide the version this was in. Maury Markowitz (talk) 13:28, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

I played the game many times on a VT100 terminal connected to a DEC-10 mainframe in 1977, and I distinctly remember that the "Faerie Queen" was the name of the ship you were given if you respawned after the destruction of the "Enterprise". Its capabilities were reduced, but in what manner, I cannot recall. 68.3.168.23 (talk) 00:29, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Correction - it was in the Fall of 1978, when I was a precocious high school freshman taking a computer class at my local community college. (The VT100 didn't appear until that year.) The computer was a DECsystem-10, formerly PDP-10. I also recall playing the game on one of the DECWriter dot-matrix terminals that printed on paper. 68.3.168.23 (talk) 01:11, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

I added some references to the "In Popular Culture" section of the entry for Spenser's "The Faerie Queene". Both of the cited articles reference the Faerie Queen. 68.3.168.23 (talk) 02:27, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

DEC version of Mayfield's orignal from 1974

There was a Fortran-IV version of Mayfield's original code from DEC. It was written by Kay Fisher at DEC in 1974. The original code is preserved here: http://www.dunnington.info/public/startrek/spacwr.for

I remember playing with it in high school about that time on a PDP-11 with RT-11 and Fortran-IV all on 8 inch floppy disks! It was distributed with the system as a sample program.

As a nostalgia trip recently, I downloaded a free Fortran compiler from the University of Salford in Manchester and got the above code to run after not seeing it for over 40 years. There were some incompatibilities but given the time that has passed, it wasn't too bad to get it running. What a blast to play it again after so long. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sciencia61 (talk • contribs) 18:57, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Star Trek (1971 video game)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Indrian (talk · contribs) 16:38, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

I am collecting too many of these I know, but I should have time to work through them in December. Indrian (talk) 16:38, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

@Indrian: poke. --PresN 21:49, 28 December 2018 (UTC)

Busy month. Terribly sorry. Review coming very soon. Indrian (talk) 17:41, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

Okay, let's do this.

Star Trek

• "which Mayfield ascribed to his limited computer knowledge being the most of the group" - Awkward phrasing.
• "Mayfield began to program the game, continuing over the summer after graduating, creating a punched tape of the game at the end of each programming session and loading it back into the computer the next day" - This sentence feels awkward. The interjection about graduating breaks up the flow in an unnatural way.
• "a fictional company he considered starting" - Awkward. You can't really have something that is both fictional but under consideration. It would be more accurate to say that Centerline Engineering was a name Mayfield created for a company he was considering creating but never actually did (though please find more concise language to convey all that in the article).
• "The original Sigma 7 version was not saved." - This feels like a non sequitur. It should certainly be mentioned somewhere, but I think it can be integrated better.
• "he also collected BASIC games and distributed them in the Digital Equipment Computer Users' Society newsletter" - This is incorrect. Ahl published an education-focused newsletter called Edu. DECUS was a separate organization from DEC that facilitated the dissemination of knowledge and programs to DEC users. Ahl published Star Trek in Edu.

Reception and Legacy

• I don't think you can talk about the legacy of the game without mentioning Star Raiders. Doug Neubauer was inspired to create it after having the Star Trek game described to him and watching other people play it (he never actually played it himself), and with its "Galactic Chart" and energy management system, its essentially a real-time adaption of the Mayfield/Leedom game.

Not much to fix here, so lets put this  On hold as concerns are addressed. Indrian (talk) 18:12, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

@Indrian:, alright, fixed all of the above, I think. --PresN 21:14, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Looks good. I'll promote. Indrian (talk) 15:19, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

First roguelike?

The article on roguelikes says that Beneath Apple Manor was actually the first roguelike, predating Rogue by two years. But could this Star Trek game be the first roguelike instead? It has the following roguelike features:

• Procedurally generated, gridlike maps
• Permadeath
• Turn based gameplay
• ASCII "graphics"

The only major difference between this game and Rogue is of course the setting - in this game you control a spaceship flying around the galaxy, while in Rogue you control a single character exploring a dungeon. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ekolis (talk • contribs) 21:46, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

It's a thought, though the map generation is different (not fixed once generated) than Roguelikes typically are, but ultimately we'd need reliable sources saying so to call this game a roguelike. --PresN 23:00, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

is this an unlicensed game?

i don't know, i very much suspect it is, but the article says nothing about it at all. i am a bit confused... wasn't STAR TREK a registered trademark? i mean, there is a Pinball table from 1971 called "Star Trek" without any relation to the tv show at all: https://vpuniverse.com/forums/files/file/6302-star-trek-gottlieb-1971/ --91.64.59.134 (talk) 14:13, 16 October 2021 (UTC)

I am getting ever more confused. The article says the game has been added to the HP Public Domain Software catalogue. How is that possible when the title of the game is a trademark? I also found this page from "BASIC Computer Games" from 1978, which claims "Used by Permission of Paramount Pictures", see here: https://www.atariarchives.org/basicgames/showpage.php?page=157 But when the game was written, in 1971 there was no Star Trek film, and thus Paramount didn't have the rights, they were with NBC (and perhaps with Gold Key Comics/Western Publishing). If someone could clear this up, i'd be much relievd.----91.64.59.134 (talk) 14:18, 16 October 2021 (UTC)

The game was 100% unlicensed when it was written- the computer software industry was very different in 1973 than it is 48 years later, and I suspect neither HP nor NBC cared much about trademark violations in free hobbyist computer programs, and certainly Mayfield or most other similar hobby programmers didn't care. Obviously Ahl, since his book was commercial, cared enough to change the title in 1973, and by 1978 apparently both he and Paramount thought that Paramount had the right to say the title was okay (in 1978; the original 1971 creation date is unrelated).

Ultimately, though, I don't think your questions are answerable conclusively. The fact of the matter is that no one involved or anyone who owned or thought they owned the trademark seems to have cared at all in the early 70s about whether this niche hobby game violated a trademark, and we're certainly not going to be able to track down exactly the legality of it all nearly 50 years later. --PresN 15:07, 16 October 2021 (UTC)

Thanks. That's not satisfying, but its better than nothing. Do you think we could perhaps add the information we have (unlicensed when written in 1971, some permission by 1978)? Cheers!--91.64.59.134 (talk) 15:51, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

@91.64.59.134 the game was non-commercial and under-the-radar, you could not buy it and was not publicized in the news. Klingon and Romulan were used without permission. 3MRB1 (talk) 01:52, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

MOVE PAGE TO BETTER TITLE: This is a mainframe-teletype game

This is a teletype—mainframe-computer game. There is no video component. 3MRB1 (talk) 01:42, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

@Mychemicalromanceisrealemo: no video 3MRB1 (talk) 01:44, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, according to the other editor, no one cares. I'm too lazy to argue over it, but yes -- there's literally no video. Tryin to make a change :-/ 03:17, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

Star Trek is not a video game.

Uh oh.. I see now this topic has already been raised. I am new at this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Keysersmoze (talk • contribs) 18:22, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

The computer game Star Trek is more related to the topic of the history of computers than to video games. Possibly in the top handful of early text terminal games playable on a teletype console, then character ROM CRT terminals. It is certainly an ancestor of video games, but video games would come after the microprocessor came on the scene. I remember playing it on a Texas Instruments Silent 700 thermal paper printing terminal with the old telephone handset plugged into the cups and dialed in over the phone at 300 baud to an HP3000. It used up a lot of expensive paper, but played just fine. It was fun. I will see if I can dig up any references. My Father was involved with the HP 3000 users group in the early days, he might have some old conference proceedings. Keysersmoze (talk) 17:51, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

@Keysersmoze: The distinction between a "computer game" and a "video game" changed decades ago; in modern parlance a computer game is just a type of video game, so that's how it's referred to on Wikipedia (note that computer game redirects to video game).

That said, if you do find any old references, please post them- it's always great to add more contemporary sources for how it was perceived at the time. --PresN 18:02, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

I would suggest that is an incorrect taxonomy, that quite the opposite is true, that video game is a just a type of computer game. Maybe I am mistaken. Perhaps Wikipedia is not the universal forum to capture human knowledge and history. Perhaps Wikipedia is just the place to snapshot 'modern parlance'. Apologies. I am new at this. Keysersmoze (talk) 18:34, 4 April 2024 (UTC)