Talk:Start Choppin

Discogs

What makes discogs a reliable source? All the information in it is user-submitted and there's no evidence of how much fact checking they use. Andrzejbanas (talk) 10:45, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

Song length/Genre

There is no song or single article where the length of the infobox accounts for the single AND it's b-sides. The length only accounts for the main song (in this case Start Choppin.) Allmusic is a fine source for it as well as the genre. Albums for the most part are consistent in genre so Alternative and Indie Rock should be enough as long as a reliable source like Allmusic supports it. Please do not edit the genre unless you have citations choosing a different genre. A song lacking a genre on its page would be ridiculous and sloppy, even the more out there songs get labeled "experimental" or "outsider music... Mrmoustache14 (talk) 19:04, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

You are correct about the length of the single. Allmusic is an acceptable source but that's for the album in it's entirety. We need it for the song or the single it's entirety. Which we do not. I don't even disagree with you on what genre it belongs too, but it's the fact that we don't have one talking about the song in question. Otherwise, it's too vague. Andrzejbanas (talk) 19:08, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

Well none of the reviews have specifically stated "Start Choppin" itself because they figure calling Where You Been alternative rock or indie rock is enough. Dinosaur Jr. albums aren't ones to constantly change genre, and honestly after listening to their 2nd-6th albums (this included Where You Been), their genre barely ever changed through the album (the exception being this song called "Poledo") Basically all of the songs on these albums except maybe "Poledo" could be considered alternative rock and indie rock and allmusic is the only review even considering something containing "Start Choppin"'s genre. Mrmoustache14 (talk) 19:14, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

That's what I'm curious about. Do we add genre then? There's no real rules set on this. Per WP:OBJECTIVE, we can't just decide the genre on our own. If Allmusic had one genre listed, then it think it would be safe, but what about this one song? Is it indie rock or alternative rock? can it be both? which one? Andrzejbanas (talk) 19:17, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

Of course it can be both. You need to remember that in the 80s and early 90s "indie rock" and "alternative rock" were basically the exact same thing except "indie rock" was usually on an independent label, which Dinosaur Jr's Start Choppin single was. Alternative rock is clearly present in the sound and we have allmusic to back us up on that. I don't see the problem with labeling it both genres, songs can be 2 genres. Look I've heard Where You Been in full a lot and each song on the album is the exact same genre and any song article off of Where You Been would be considered both Alternative and Indie Rock. Mrmoustache14 (talk) 19:25, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

As I said before, I don't disagree. But the problem is we lack of a source and wikipeda allows no original research, so our own opinion on what kind of song it is doesn't really matter. Andrzejbanas (talk) 21:09, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

But we have Allmusic! My point is all Dinosaur Jr. songs on Where You Been are relatively the same genre, so the genres for the Where You Been article should be suitable enough for "Start Choppin." Mrmoustache14 (talk) 22:44, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

I don't disagree, but how does the average user know that? can this rule be applied to all albums on the allmusic site? There is a rule to use allmusic as only a last resort for genre on WP:ALBUMS. As stated before, I agree with you that they are part of these genres, but that doesn't make citing it right. Andrzejbanas (talk) 23:37, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

Well for the most part albums tend to hold the same genre throughout. It's out of the ordinary for an album not to, so I think the genres listed for an album of any credible source can apply to each song unless it's blatantly otherwise, like in the case of a band that does change genre a lot. Mrmoustache14 (talk) 23:49, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

That's the problem. That makes the source not useful unfamiliar with the music of Dinosaur Jr. I know you and I are, but it's not fair for people who are approaching it for the first time. You know what I mean? :) Andrzejbanas (talk) 23:54, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

I really don't know what you mean. It's a credible source helping people understand that "Start Choppin" is both an Alternative and Indie Rock song... plain as that. Mrmoustache14 (talk) 02:14, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

What i'm saying, yes for you and me who are familiar with the song and the group's output, we know that there genre didn't change much. But that's not the same for someone unfamiliar with the group and it's output as it doesn't make it clear that the source is talking about this specific song.

I think the best solution is to do something like say it's a song by the alternative rock group Dinsaur Jr. or something, that won't be technically incorrect and it will still give the viewer an idea of what to expect. Andrzejbanas (talk) 12:31, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

It's not technically incorrect though. This isn't even a problem. I say leave it as it is. The viewer gets a full idea with the genres listed. Please stop making this into a big deal. Mrmoustache14 (talk) 17:07, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

Bubblegum pop

this song is categorically not bubblegum pop, even if a post hoc critic some 15 years later said so on a webpage. 205.220.129.240 (talk) 18:44, 23 October 2023 (UTC)