Talk:State (Bell/Springvale) Highway

Untitled

In dire need of references, but I have been able to confirm this odd construction is in fact the name of the road (VicRoads). Orderinchaos 05:08, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

There is no longer a rail crossing at Nunawading 115.130.44.65 (talk) 08:04, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Misleading title

The article is titled "Route 40, Melbourne" but only refers to the State (Bell/Springvale) Highway portion. Either the full Route 40 should be included, or the title changed to be more appropriate. - Bricks J. Winzer (talk) 12:43, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation style

Note: There is a proposal at WT:AURD#Move_articles_to_bracket_disambiguation to rename this article (and others) to conform to the WP:AURDNAME guideline – specifically, using brackets instead of a comma for disambiguation. - Evad37 [talk] 08:59, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

Proposed number

Before 2013, NSW road articles had the hatnote "Proposed ___ to replace __" inside the infobox. How about we do that here as well instead of just deleting people's changes? Jordf32123 (talk) 09:56, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

If you can find a reliable source that confirms the proposed route for that road, and cite that source as a reference, then sure, add that to the infobox. But until those conditions are met, then no, as it's speculation otherwise. Lordstorm (talk) 01:11, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

Possibly split article

According to the VicRoads Register of Public Roads as referenced in the article, (page 957 as stamped on the document, jump to page 973 out of 1173 in your pdf browser) the State (Bell/Springvale) Highway seems to:

• Start at Hackett St, Pascoe Vale South and end at Bulleen Rd, Bulleen (this is the Bell St portion)

• Start at the Eastlink/Eastern Freeway-Springvale Road Interchange, Nunawading and end at the Mornington Peninsula Freeway, Chelsea Heights (this is the Springvale Rd portion)

It doesn't say anything about the connecting roads between Bell St and Springvale Rd, that is, Manningham Rd, Williamson Rd, Doncaster Rd, Mitcham Rd being part of it, i.e. between Bulleen Rd and the Eastlink Interchange or after the Mornington Peninsula Freeway interchange, on Edithvale Rd.

Also, this article very much does breach WP:COMMONNAME (nobody has ever used the term "State Highway" in any combination whatsoever, it seems to be a government invention to name a previously unnamed grouping of two roads which they want to classify as one for some reason). I'm not even sure this article needs to exist, there is nothing linking Bell St and Springvale Road apart from a Route number (which also includes many other roads) and a technical government document. There also seems to be a lot of WP:EXCESSDETAIL, especially about the hyper technicalities of what is or isn't part of the highway on the official register of roads and the history of this register. I actually made the image with the constituent sections, which is wrong, following the logic of the first paragraph of the article and thinking all of route 40 after CityLink was part of the State (Bell/Springvale) Highway.

Should we possibly split this into Bell St (up to and including the Bell Banksia Link which is normally just Bell St) and Springvale Rd articles? MarkiPoli (talk) 10:29, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

References

Requested move 24 April 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (non-admin closure) Toadette^Edit! 15:31, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

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State (Bell/Springvale) Highway → Bell Street – This is not the WP:COMMON NAME, is unknown to drivers and is not on any signs, and is not a nickname or anything of the sort. Bell Street and Springvale Road, separately, are notable, but the route as a whole isn't. I have created two new articles with appropriate citations, Draft:Bell Street and Draft:Springvale Road. These drafts also have a lot less WP:EXCESSDETAIL. I am proposing firstly a WP:SPLIT to create the Springvale Road article, noting the diff it was split from on this article in the split talk template, then move this article to Bell Street and change the content. It is better to do this instead of deleting this article and creating two new ones to preserve the history for attribution. After that, I propose to create a new disambiguation article at State (Bell/Springvale) Highway. Then I would fix the incoming links to it to point to either Bell Street or Springvale Road directly. Listing under an RM instead of requested split because it is not a traditional split (keep original article at same title and put existing section to new article) and RM is necessary to move the article, and I'm not going to make these drastic changes without listing it for discussion MarkiPoli (talk) 07:00, 24 April 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Natg 19 (talk) 21:45, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

• Neutral on whether to rename the article at all, but definitely oppose the primary topic hijack. There are lots of Bell Streets in the world and this isn't the most important. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:40, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose: article conforms to WP:AURDNAME. Also, there are plenty of roads across Australia that are officially gazetted by a RTA as one name but are known as multiple names across its length; they use the gazzetted name as a form of cohesion because listing them under separate articles would be unwieldly and confusing (the M80 Ring Road article had similar issues, it was eventually agreed to use the gazetted name instead of WP:COMMON NAME "Western Ring Road" and "Metropolitan Ring Road" for similar reasons), and the very fact that this article uses a government definition for a string of roads is even specifically addressed in its opening paragraph. I also disagree with the opinion that the route as a whole isn't notable, because as a main arterial route through Melbourne it has its own history, both pre- and post-declaration as a State Highway. Granted the article may need a little tidy-up. Lordstorm (talk) 01:45, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

  WP:AURDNAME says "Sometimes the signposted name may also be preferable if the official name has no non-administrative usage", with examples given of Airport Drive being officially known as Airport Connection Road and Warrigal Road being officially known as Warrigal Highway. There's also an example of a gazetted route being split into two different articles, "Karrinyup Road and Morley Drive are officially known as the Karrinyup–Morley Highway". Also, if we're going by the strictly gazetted declaration, the roads between Bell St and Springvale Road would have to not be mentioned as they aren't part of the gazetted highway. The M80 is essentially one road with different names, however, this route is two very distinct roads. MarkiPoli (talk) 09:29, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose Unfortunately, this is a messy area. This article describes something real, and strange. Victoria's state road authority simply has classified this two part route as a single, official highway. And it's a long standing situation that's unlikely to change in the foreseeable future. (I know these people. I used to work there.) This article really has to remain as is. In fact, it's such an unusual situation, it's a good thing for the article to exist. However, it seems logical to me for the two separate roads, Bell Street and Springvale Road, to also have their own separate articles. Is there anything preventing that from happening? HiLo48 (talk) 10:32, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.