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Latest comment: 11 months ago5 comments2 people in discussion
Rosiestep, I came here from Amy Louisa Rye. According to the references, this article incorporates text from four public domain sources, which all date to the 19th century. I think some of the text should be attributed and/ or quoted, could you have a look? I can't do it myself as I can only see reference 1 and a version of reference 2 via the Internet Archive. For example I am not sure what is meant by "individual treatment for children". For background, the ODNB article on Henrietta Barnett says "She [Barnett] played a leading role in the departmental committee appointed to inquire into 'the condition of Poor Law Children', which led her and her sister Alice's husband, Dr Ernest Hart, to form in 1896 the State Children's Association, with Henrietta Barnett as honorary secretary." TSventon (talk) 17:54, 13 September 2023 (UTC)Reply
TSventon, thanks for reading the article. The entire article is created using PD sources and each of the 4 sources in the References section contains the {{Source-attribution}} template. I'm not sure what other attribution is required? I also don't recall including anything that isn't sourced to those 4 references. One thing that could be done is to add an inline citation for each sentence but that is not a common practice with articles that are entirely made of PD sources. A friendly FYI that as I'm unable to access the ODNB article you mention, it will fall on someone else to add that information/reference. --Rosiestep (talk) 20:25, 13 September 2023 (UTC)Reply
Rosiestep, I am not worried about copyright, but more about NPOV when using primary sources. I haven't tried explaining this before, but I believe that all the sources should be treated as primary sources. The guidance I found was
Wikipedia:Plagiarism#Public-domain sources says If the external work is in the public domain, but it contains an original idea or is a primary source, then it may be necessary to alter the wording of the text (for example, not including all the text from the original work, or quoting some sections, or specifically attributing to a specific source an opinion included in the text) to meet the Wikipedia content policies of neutral point of view and Wikipedia:No original research (in particular the restrictions on the use of primary sources).
Latest comment: 11 months ago3 comments2 people in discussion
Rosiestep, I have added a reference to a 1948 book with four paragraphs of coverage, hopefully you can see it. It says that the association closed in 1937 around the time of the death of its chair James Lovat-Fraser. Obviously its detailed objectives changed as the environment changed. TSventon (talk) 14:21, 14 September 2023 (UTC)Reply
TSventon, great find, in general, and the disestablishment date in particular! I can view p. 123 of Voluntary Social Services but not p. 124. I won't be editing the article further at this time so no worries about edit conflict if you wish to continue expanding the article with the material in the that book or others. --Rosiestep (talk) 14:34, 14 September 2023 (UTC)Reply
Rosiestep, I have added a 21st century (!) source to confirm that Henrietta Barnett was the prime mover. I think that makes notability clearer as several of the earlier sources were close to the organisation. I am hampered by my lack of detailed knowledge of the history of the Poor Law, so I will probably leave the article for a bit.
If you can only see one page in Google Books, it is sometimes possible to switch between new and classic versions and manually change the page number in the url.
Incidentally Voluntary Social Services says that the organisation closed in 1937 after the death of its chairman, which was in 1938. It may be confused with the death of Henrietta Barnett in 1936. TSventon (talk) 02:54, 15 September 2023 (UTC)Reply