Talk:Staten Island Quarantine War

Capitalization?

@AugusteBlanqui: I was wondering if the "The" in "The Quarantine" is capitalized or not. I think not, based on the sources I've been reading, but it's your call. epicgenius (talk) 14:20, 14 October 2019 (UTC)

Hi @Epicgenius: It doesn't need "The"; I think I was working with one source early on that use "The Quarantine" and I stuck with that, which was a mistake in hindsight. AugusteBlanqui (talk) 14:24, 14 October 2019 (UTC)

AugusteBlanqui, thanks for the clarification. I have nominated this article for DYK. Thanks again for a great article! epicgenius (talk) 14:26, 14 October 2019 (UTC)

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 07:04, 5 November 2019 (UTC)

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• Comment or view
• Article history

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• ... that in the 1858 Staten Island Quarantine War, angry residents burned down United States' largest quarantine facility after years of opposition? Source: Stephenson, Kathryn (January 1, 2004). "The Quarantine War: the Burning of the New York Marine Hospital in 1858". Public Health Reports. 119: 79–92.
  • ALT1:... that in the aftermath of the 1858 Staten Island Quarantine War, a judge who owned land near the controversial hospital ruled that its destruction by arson was justified? Source: "The Destruction of Quarantine", The New York Times

• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/XHFAMX-TDT
• Comment: All credit goes to AugusteBlanqui for the article. I merely cleaned a little syntax up.

Created by AugusteBlanqui (talk). Nominated by Epicgenius (talk) at 14:26, 14 October 2019 (UTC).

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: - Offline/paywalled citation accepted in good faith Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: Fiamh ^{(talk, contribs)} 04:25, 15 October 2019 (UTC)

Feeling feverish

Did you know... a hospital still exists on Staten Island that was called "The Marine Hospital"? Viz. See the article Marine Hospital Service, and note the first picture and legend in that latter article - that building is still standing over 130-140 years later.

It is remarkable that I still can't figure out the where for the location of this article's hospital. I see mention of Tompkins Ave, but every other street name on that old map has 'disappeared'. However, given the definite mention of Tompkins Ave, it would have to be *very* near if not identical to the later Marine Hospital's Clifton location. However, Tompkinsville and Clifton are quite separate places. The assertion of 'Tompkinsville' sounds dubious.

Gee, reading the source PDF (well, the abstract) I see

"... was located on a beautiful 30-acre tract of land on the northeastern short of Staten Island, just a few feet south of where the Staten Island Ferry lands today."

So, St. George, not Tompkinsville. Where did you get that from? So we have description just south of current ferry, but the map shows Tompkins Ave saying 1845? But only Bay Street would fit the described location and not Tompkins Ave which was farther south in Clifton.

All this is very muddled. Where was the first Marine Hospital? The described location (St. George) and the map showing Tompkins Ave just doesn't match up.

The muddle is important, because if the map _is_ accurately mentioning Tompkins Ave, then the 'first' (destroyed) and 'second' (existing) hospitals would be at the same location, in Clifton. Given the continued existence of the later Marine Hospital on Tompkins Ave from at the very least 1887, and likely earlier, and the article's timeframe of 1858, it seems quite odd to not check out the apparent continuity. There is more to the story than is attempted here, and that is a defect.

Finally, the last section Ethical implications of the Quarantine is concerning twice over. First, why is this section here at all? The final cheering word to the "burn baby burn" crowd? Second, is it hardly balanced. It is in fact that dreaded non-NPOV we are supposed to avoid. In fact, required to avoid. Where did this come from? It hardly matches up with Ethical considerations in the use of quarantine, for example. The overreach and one-sided representations leaves me feeling I must look up how to mark a section with a POV tag - a first time for me.

This article seems motivated largely by one source, supported in the events by contemporary news sources, but has an air of unbelievability given the existence of a large establishment with the very same name within a short term of years afterwards. The tacked-on opinion piece section is distressingly one-sided. Did you really want to advertise a "something happened" single occurrence with an anti-vax style stinger? Shenme (talk) 06:01, 15 November 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback Shenme. Though I'm not the main author of the article, I'd like to point out a few things. Tompkinsville is not that far from St. George (actually, the Staten Island Railway's Tompkinsville station is at Victory Blvd, two blocks south of the ferry terminal). There was also a ferry slip at Victory Blvd, too.

In reference to the location mixup, the Marine Hospital moved to Bayley Seton Hospital after this event happened. The event did not occur at Bayley Seton Hospital, so actually, the first and subsequent hospitals aren't the same. I think you are correct that "Tompkins Avenue" must have been Bay Street, as seen on this 1845 map, which shows that the hospital where the Quarantine occurred was on the shore (which Bayley Seton isn't).

As for POV, I didn't have anything to do with these quotes. This is the first time that I'm hearing of this, actually, so I'm going to mention the original author AugusteBlanqui. epicgenius (talk) 03:51, 16 November 2019 (UTC)

I just added the exact location, which has become the National Lighthouse Museum. The old map pre-dates the railroad that displaced those streets. Someone else can add coordinates and a current map, if desired.

As for the "Ethical implications" section, it reminds me of present-day attacks against Ebola clinics in Africa, but this article really can't do justice to the topic. Maybe just replace the final section with a "See also" link to Quarantine#Ethical considerations ? —173.68.139.31 (talk) 04:29, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for the additions, it's much appreciated. It looks like it would actually be part of Staten Island Coast Guard Station - see page 6 of http://s-media.nyc.gov/agencies/lpc/lp/1883.pdf, where five acres of the 30-acre NY Marine Hospital were given to the U.S. federal government for the USCG station. With regards to Ethical Implications - I agree with adding a link to Quarantine#Ethical considerations as well. epicgenius (talk) 13:36, 20 November 2019 (UTC)