Talk:Stellantis

Ownership doesn't add up to 100%.

This needs to be addressed or at least clarified. While the article echoes the referenced source, it still is mathematically problematic.

Consider examining this source: https://money.cnn.com/quote/shareholders/shareholders.html?symb=FCAU&subView=institutional Vincent Ree (talk) 02:47, 19 January 2021 (UTC):

Isn't the rest of the shares are publicly traded? Andra Febrian (talk) 03:58, 19 January 2021 (UTC)::

Vincent Ree's link has expired, however by my math according to figures available at https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/STLA/holders/ the numbers add-up just fine. 🆃🆁🆂⑨ⓚ™ 08:03, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

It's still not adding up to 100%.

I suspect the issue is that Stellantis is publicly traded on the NYSE so many owners are individual investors. The "owners" listed are just the largest shareholders. Indeed, the referenced source is:

https://live.euronext.com/en/product/equities/NL00150001Q9-XPAR/company-information

and it shows the listed shareholders who, together, own approximated 33%.

Shareholder information

Exor N.V. 13.99 %

EPF 6.98 %

BPI France 6.00 %

Dongfeng Motor Corporation 3.09 %

BlackRock, Inc. 2.97 %

Source: Cofisem - Last Update: 31 Aug 2023

And those shareholders and amounts differ than the ones in the article (For instance, BlackRock is now a significant shareholder). I'd recommend removing the ownership section entirely since that information is fluid. At minimum, it should be renamed to something like Largest Shareholders.

Vincent Ree (talk) 00:26, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Manufacturer parameter in the infobox for Stellantis vehicles

Now that Stellantis is officially formed and both FCA and PSA will cease to exist, we need to start some kind of consensus on what to write in the 'Manufacturer' parameter in the infoboxes of Stellantis vehicles before people are scrambling to add 'Stellantis' without consistency from one article to another.

Currently, it's inconsistent for both FCA and PSA models. American FCA models usually resorted to write every corporate changes like this:

• American Motors (AMC) (XXXX–1987)
• Chrysler Corporation (1987–1998)
• DaimlerChrysler (1998–2007)
• Chrysler LLC (2007–2009)
• Chrysler Group LLC (2009–2014)
• FCA US LLC (2014–present)

While I personally don't mind this style, but for the general public it seems too 'technical' and excessive.

Most European FCA models simply said 'Fiat', 'Maserati', or 'Alfa Romeo', though I did see the American approach is used in the Fiat 500 (2007) article:

• Fiat Group Automobiles (2007-2014)
• FCA Italy (2014-present)

For consistency, we need a consensus whether we commit to the American FCA style, or just ignore all the corporate names and simply mention the brands. I listed several possible options, even though none of them felt 'right' for me personally. I feel like we shouldn't be fixated to these options and try discussing other possibilities.

Option 1

List the corporate name changes, not mentioning the brand (currently done on most FCA US models)

For Chrysler:

• American Motors (AMC) (XXXX–1987)
• Chrysler Corporation (1987–1998)
• DaimlerChrysler (1998–2007)
• Chrysler LLC (2007–2009)
• Chrysler Group LLC (2009–2014)
• FCA US LLC (2014–2021)
• (Stellantis US) (2021–present)

For Fiat:

• Fiat Group Automobiles (XXXX–2014)
• FCA Italy (2014–2021)
• Stellantis Italy (2021–present)

For PSA:

• Groupe PSA (XXXX–2021)
• Stellantis France (2021–present)

For Opel:

• General Motors (XXXX–2017)
• Groupe PSA (2017–2021)
• Stellantis France (2021–present)

Option 2

Mention the brand, then mention the corporate name in brackets after. We could list previous corporate names or we could also stay simple with just Stellantis.

Example:

• Peugeot (Groupe PSA) (XXXX–2021)
• Peugeot (Stellantis France) (2021–present)

Although listing the previous corporate name might make it too long for some older American FCA models:

• Jeep (American Motors) (AMC) (XXXX–1987)
• Jeep (Chrysler Corporation) (1987–1998)
• Jeep (DaimlerChrysler) (1998–2007)
• Jeep (Chrysler LLC) (2007–2009)
• Jeep (Chrysler Group LLC) (2009–2014)
• Jeep (FCA US LLC) (2014–present)
• Jeep Stellantis US (2021–present)

or:

• Jeep
• American Motors (AMC) (XXXX–1987)
• Chrysler Corporation (1987–1998)
• DaimlerChrysler (1998–2007)
• Chrysler LLC (2007–2009)
• Chrysler Group LLC (2009–2014)
• FCA US LLC (2014–2021)
• Stellantis US (2021–present)

italic: we're not sure about the subsidiary name yet, will update if there's any announcement

Option 3

Option 1 or 2, but depending on the generation. For example, the Corsa F (2019-present) is developed by Groupe PSA, so the manufacturer before 2019 is General Motors.

Option 4

simply the brand name without the corporate name

Option 5

Mixing several options depending on the situation (e.g. different consensuses depending on whether the brand was owned by Chrysler, Fiat, Peugeot or GM)

Anyone have a better suggestion? Andra Febrian (talk) 16:22, 16 January 2021 (UTC)

Is this needed in at all? Would this not be better placed in the articles about the predecessor companies?

--Champion150 (talk) 09:33, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

I agree this may not needed, thus the Option 4 or 5. The problem is that some FCA models has the predecessor companies listed, so we need to either continue it (adding Stellantis) or stop it (by removing the predecessor companies). Andra Febrian (talk) 09:55, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

Hi, Andra Febrian, there is something wrong (as you have noticed at talk of Stellantis Italy, see later):

• First of all: Stellantis is not a new company. It is the 2014 founded Fiat Chrysler Automobiles N.V. (FCA) and now to Stellantis N.V. renamed. See:
  • https://lei.report/LEI/549300LKT9PW7ZIBDF31: Stellantis N.V. - LEI 549300LKT9PW7ZIBDF31 - ex Fiat Chrysler Automobiles N.V. ex Fiat Investments N.V.
  • https://www.stellantis.com/en/legal-notes "The merger of Peugeot S.A. into Fiat Chrysler Automobiles N.V. subsequently renamed Stellantis N.V. took effect on January 16, 2021. All information for periods prior to that date relates to FCA Group and PSA Group pre-merger."
• As to see before, the Groupe PSA (within ther subsidiaries, so also the french subs. Automobiles Peugeot S.A. and Automobiles Citroën S.A.) merged into the FCA N.V. and after renamed to Stellantis. Groupe PSA as company is gone.
• As of this before the new Article Stellantis France as Company of Stellantis is WP:OR, see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Stellantis France
• FCA ITALY S.P.A. ist FCA Italy and not renamed, so Stellantis Italy is wrong. See therefore Talk:Stellantis Italy#Source?.
• Also is FCA US LLC (Chrysler) not renamed as is also existent as a subsidary of Fiat Chrysler Automobiles N.V. now Stellantis N.V. (see for instance an US-Document from January: https://www.justice.gov/usao-edmi/pr/fca-us-llc-charged-making-illegal-payments-uaw-officials).

As of all this, it seems that in the moment the only change of name the change is from Fiat Chrysler Automobiles N.V. now Stellantis N.V. For all the other ist Stellantis only Group-Brand. 194.166.199.118 (talk) 16:15, 24 February 2021 (UTC) (PS: Sorry, the Englisch. I'm from Austria with native German language.)

I understand. These are all speculations, and haven't been executed since. Kindly see my other reply at Talk: Stellantis Italy as I called for Stellantis subsidiaries to be renamed back to its original titles. I have made the suggestion redundant. Thank you for your attention. Andra Febrian (talk) 16:20, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

yep, your are prompt. :-) Consequently we should have to rename all other Articels of Companies and Plants of FCA/PSA now Stellantis to Stellantis xzy. (NO!, it's only joke.)

@Ridwan97 and CCCC10: See here above, see Talk:Stellantis Italy#Source?. 194.166.199.118 (talk) 16:34, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

@194.166.199.118: So you're saying it was my fault that the articles gets renamed unilaterally? I don't think so, sir. Those were two different issues. Andra Febrian (talk) 09:49, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

Oh no! Sorry, Andra Febrian, at this misunderstanding, that you could read of my words. It's all ok with that, what you saying. The fault is only at the (both) users, they are looking in there WP:CRYSTALBALL and move the and speculates in the articles. Thats not you. You began correct the discussion. All good! (BTW1: I'm not a sir. :-) BTW2: Ping is only for users with account possible, ping to IP will not reach the IP.)

Again ping to @Ridwan97 and CCCC10: What's your comments in the case? 194.166.199.118 (talk) 17:01, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

Aha, glad that it was a misunderstanding. Andra Febrian (talk) 17:06, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

Fine :-)

Would be so kind, @Andra Febrian, to have a look to Fiat Chrysler Automobiles: Revision history with the Difflinks
1. from me: First: Stellantis is not a new Company because: Second: Groupe PSA was merged with and into FCA, so PSA is gone. Third: Directly after the merger, FCA renamed to Stellantis
and 2. reverted within less an hour: Undid revision 1009152111 by 194.166.199.118 (talk) reverted apparent. synthesis.

194.166.199.118 (talk) 02:46, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

Brand Positioning

This needs to be addressed or at least clarified. I realise that this is the 'claimed' brand positioning by Stellantis, possibly their desired future state, but at the moment this doesn't ring true. The reality is more along this lines of (in my perception)

Bargain and City Cars Citroën: Fiat & Abarth

Lower mainstream Opel, Vauxhall (UK Only), Lancia (Italy Only), Peugeot and DS

Lower Premium Alfa Romeo --Champion150 (talk) 09:33, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

But this is original research/POV? Mark83 (talk) 11:14, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

This is indeed the very definition of original research, with shades of synthesis. 🆃🆁🆂⑨ⓚ™ 08:07, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

"Dutch-based"

It's registered in the Netherlands for legal purposes, but is there more than that? If not, isn't that misleading BilCat (talk) 05:22, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

Yes it is misleading. As others have also raised this issue (indirectly) below. DeFacto just reverted my edit removing it. Could you clarify if you don't agree? Otherwise I don't see any argument in favour of keeping it in the article. -- {{u|Gtoffoletto}}  ^talk 12:36, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Gtoffoletto, it's a fact - Stellantis is Dutch-based, and it is almost universally described that way in the reliable sources. -- DeFacto (talk). 06:16, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

Let's continue this discussion in the thread below as it covers the same topic. -- {{u|Gtoffoletto}}  ^talk 11:07, 19 June 2021 (UTC)

Stellantis is a Franco-Italian-American group

Stellantis is a Franco-Italian-American group. See table (sources in French)

Quotes	Web pages link
« Stellantis : a Franco-Italian-American automobile giant »	siecledigital.fr
« This future Franco-Italian-American group will bring together no less than 14 brands! »	planeterenault.com
« But the Franco-Italian-American will only occupy the sixth place in the world »	lejdd.fr
« Stellantis, the new Franco-Italian-American automotive giant »	capital.fr
« New Franco-Italian-American ensemble »	courrierinternational.com
« The automotive group Franco-Italian-American Stellantis »	statista.com
« The Managing Director of the new Franco-Italian-American group »	autonews.fr
« This Franco-Italian-American giant »	autoplus.fr
« Stellantis is the future Franco-Italian-American automotive group »	strategieslogistique.fr
« And while the Franco-Italian-American group will soon have no less than fourteen brands »	autoplus.fr

Sincerely--Frds2945 (talk) 22:02, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

I am also inclined to describe this as a "Franco-Italian-American group headquartered in the Netherlands" and, even more importantly, i would reintroduce the flags for the brands (someone removed without a reason). It's headquartered in NL for legal, political, and financial reasons. It's not like Renault or Fiat are the product of the Dutch economy now. Barjimoa (talk) 20:06, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

Good work on the sourcing above. But @Barjimoa:, the flags were removed for a reason, with an edit summary to explain very clearly why they were removed [1] Mark83 (talk) 21:11, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

I think this description (more accurate than "dutch domiciled" raises issues. For example the sources are mostly french. Italians would use another order :-) So I've just removed the "Dutch-Domiciled" specification altogether. We already specify the nationalities of the original companies and where the headquarter is. No need to put a label on it. It is a multinational company. -- {{u|Gtoffoletto}}  ^talk 18:58, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

Frds2945, cherry-picking based on the results of a targeted search proves nothing. I found the following by targeting "multinational":

More quotes	Webpage
"Stellantis N.V. A Dutch-based multinational corporation and one of the largest automakers..."	Plus500
"Stellantis N.V. is a multinational automotive company headquartered in Amsterdam, the Netherlands."	CompaniesHistory.com
"Multinational car manufacturer Stellantis has said that..."	WhichCar?
"FCA US LLC, is a subsidiary of Stellantis N.V. a multinational automotive manufacturer headquartered in Amsterdam, the Netherlands."	GHSA
"The Israel Innovation Authority... has signed an agreement with an Italian unit of multinational automaker Stellantis NV..."	The Times of Israel
"Stellantis N.V. is a multinational automotive manufacturer formed in 2021 following the merger between Fiat Chrysler Automobiles (FCA) and the PSA Group..."	Intrado
"Stellantis N.V. is a multinational automotive manufacturer formed in 2021"	The Hindu
"... the merger brings together 400,000 workers from Europe, America and Asia in the new multinational Stellantis"	WSWS.ORG
"Encompassing fourteen separate brands, Stellantis is a true multinational giant. Now the world’s fourth-largest car manufacturer, the company is headquartered in the Netherlands."	Motoring Research
"Stellantis N.V. ... is a Dutch-based multinational automotive manufacturing corporation resulting from the merger of French automaker Groupe PSA and Italian-American automaker Fiat Chrysler Automobiles"	Washington Times

-- DeFacto (talk). 20:31, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

@DeFacto: (I've taken the liberty to move your comment in chronological order to allow others to better follow the discussion. I hope you don't mind) I agree we should describe the company as a "multinational corporation" as your sources specify. Also we should specify the nationalities of the companies that formed it. After this we should also specify the headquarters in the lead (as we already do) It is headquartered in Amsterdam, Netherlands. However, as I think others agree here, mentioning it twice and stating it is "dutch-domiciled" in the first sentence is misleading and not really relevant. It is not an important aspect of the company. Quite the opposite and should come last in the lead. As you can read here [2] the dutch company is described as an empty shell with no employees and potentially not even paying taxes in the Netherlands (exactly like Fiat Chrysler Automobiles did for years before the merger). It doesn't "really" have it's HQ in the Netherlands and it has a very feeble connection with the Netherlands. If you read the FCA article it starts: Fiat Chrysler Automobiles N.V. (FCA) was a multinational corporation resulting from the acquisition of Chrysler Group by Fiat S.p.A. The Italian holding company Exor was the largest shareholder and owner of voting rights. At the time it was the world's eighth largest auto maker.[5] The group was established in October 2014. Its corporate headquarters were domiciled in Amsterdam and its financial headquarters were in London.. We should follow this same example. -- {{u|Gtoffoletto}}  ^talk 10:58, 19 June 2021 (UTC)

I think Gtoffoletto summarised the situation rather well. The sources say it’s a multinational (or Franco-italian etc) company and say it’s based in the Netherlands, but they never say it’s a Dutch company. Starting by saying that it’s “Dutch-domiciled” is misleading and it’s also a formula not much used in sources.Barjimoa (talk) 10:49, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

The "dutch-domiciled" specification had been reintroduced. I've removed it based on the consensus above. -- {{u|Gtoffoletto}}  ^talk 09:07, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

Mopar isn't a make of automobiles

The article includes Mopar as a make of automobiles. It is a parts and modification entity, not a brand of vehicles. 13:20, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

Dongfeng's position as a shareholder

Dongfeng might be neutral in their dealings with Stellantis, they can not be biased shareholders as for example the Peugeot family or the French state. If their interests are more represented by FCA shareholders, they might vote with them. How do you see that? CABF45 (talk) 13:46, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

List of assembly plants

Opel Wien and Opel Szentgotthárd are not assembly plants. They produce engines and transmissions. Neither is the ex-FCA factory in Skoczów, Silesia, and the one in Bielsko-Biała. If all factories are to be listed, then the ex-GM factory in Tychy should also be listed; engines are being produced there (see GM Manufacturing Poland. And the Opel plant in Kaiserslautern, Germany. They should be dropped (which would be a pity), or the section renamed. --L.Willms (talk) 00:08, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

Country specificity

I think we should call it as American-Italian and French because It comprises of Chrysler American brands jeep,ram,dodge ,Chrysler, Italian brands like alfa Romeo and fiat then French brands like Peugeot. It clarifies that I was formed by merger of all three companies . 2405:204:2283:927D:BC9A:9D10:99B4:E443 (talk) 09:08, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

It's redundant, as the second half of the lead sentence already states: "on the basis of a 50-50 cross-border merger between the Italian-American conglomerate Fiat Chrysler Automobiles and the French PSA Group." "Multinational" is sufficient. BilCat (talk) 09:21, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

This has been discussed above. Please read that and make any comments you wish to there to save duplication. Also, “I think” isn’t going to persuade anyone, you’ll need reliable sources to back up your position. Mark83 (talk) 09:22, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

Company seat

If the company's seat is Amsterdam, then why does it say Hoofddorp on the Stellantis Webpage https://www.stellantis.com/en/contacts?

Corporate Address

Stellantis N.V.

Taurusavenue 1

2132 LS Hoofddorp, The Netherlands

--Gamgee (talk) 20:58, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

https://www.stellantis.com/en/legal-notes

“The Corporate Seat of Stellantis NV is situated in Amsterdam (The Netherlands) and its Corporate Office is in Lijnden (The Netherlands), Singaporestraat 92, 1175 RA.” Mark83 (talk) 21:57, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

Allright, that´s better than a translated pdf, still I don`t think that's an answer to my question --Gamgee (talk) 09:48, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

error in the infobox

There is no source stating Dongfeng Motor's stake in Stellantis is 3.4%. The most recent source states the stake is 4.5%.

Stellantis shareholder Dongfeng sells down stake for 600 mln euros Reuters

207.107.139.162 (talk) 19:16, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

Amsterdam HQ office photos

Amsterdam HQ ?

Anyone have any photos of the hq in Amsterdam — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.254.9.47 (talk) 09:34, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

See photo at right for what the Amsterdam HQ probably looks like. BilCat (talk) 19:53, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Zuidtoren, Hoofddorp

Their corporate office is in a building called Zuidtoren, which looks like this. The address matches the one on the Stellantis web site, and the building's web site lists them as a tenant.

I don't know if they have any "head office" staff in Amsterdam itself, but this isn't far away. Aoeuidhtns (talk) 16:28, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

Brand added dates

The dates for "Added" brands look strange: Why is the theory behind Citroën's 2014 and Alfa Romeo's 2007 while Fiat is 2014 and Peugeot/Opel/Vauxhall are 2021? The whole list looks as if it may be trying to be Chrysler's history and would look different from Fiat's viewpoint or Peugeot's - I am not sure this is what many readers would expect, probably leading to the other curiosities 10:39, 15 June 2022 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C6:148A:9B01:2CA6:BEF3:4B30:A817 (talk)

Opel

User:BilCat reverted a edit which said that Opel was acquired before the merger. Also Jeep got acquired decades ago and noted. Why? 88.228.248.102 (talk) 23:28, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

CK Birla group

why does clicking on PSA AVTEC takes you to CK Birla group as the two companies aren't even connected, mention the 50:50 joint partnership as well. 117.213.48.6 (talk) 14:09, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

Transportation 102.89.73.128 (talk) 04:47, 31 October 2024 (UTC)