Talk:Stenka Razin

Song lyrics

Um... I don't see the "Stenka Razin song" as being very relevant to the article itself... It is not a song that is extraordinarily popular or well-known in Russia.

how can you possibly speak for the whole Russia, past and present? mikka (t) 20:07, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

Something is seriously wrong with the translation of the stenka razin song.

So, you have never seen any tranlsations of verse? They are always inexact. YOu have to match the rhythm and rhyme. The meaning is preserved only vaguely. mikka (t) 00:54, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Stenka Razin always been (and still is) one of the most well known and popular songs in Russia. Fisenko 03:44, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Yes..I'm not undervaluating your work, I'm just saying you made a few mistakes. The order of the verses is mixed: translation of the 3rd russian verse cannot be found. The 4th russian verse is consistent with the 3rd english, the 5th russian with 4th english (and so on) and the 10th english verse is not consistent with any of the russian verses. So the biggest problem I see are the 3rd russian and the 10th english verse being an orphans.

The next inconsistency is as follows. On the bottom of the page, this text is written: "It is one of the few Russian folk songs still remembered, and popular as a drinking song, the culmination being, of course:

And he hurls her overboard Right into the surging wave... "

This exact phrase cannot be found in the translation. I know, the meaning is the same, only written with different words (And has cast her where the waters/Of the Volga roll and sigh), but anyway..lack of consistency is preventing this article from being great. Leonr 16:16, 27 November 2005 (UTC+1)

Yes the song is messed up. Let us hope that is can be properly sequenced.

I fixed up the sequencing, and took out a verse which wasn't in the version I learned or ever heard (I tried to preserve it to put here on the talk page, but something ate it meanwhile. Oh well, it's in the history.) Is this version known to be the original as written, because there are quite a few minor differences to the way I learned it, e.g. "Sten'ki Razina chelny' rather than "ostrogrudnye chelny" (for some reason I can't type in Cyrillic right now).

I also agree that the so-called 'English version' leaves something to be desired. I've never really seen the point of trying to rewrite songs rather than translate them carefully. Most people are either not going to sing it at all, or they'll sing the original even if they don't speak the language. But if they read the English, presumably it's so they can find out what the song actually says! Katzenjammer 23:22, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

I wrote the french article for Stenka Razine, which is (i think) more complete. Do you want that I translate it?

Shouldn't the song have a separate page? (Msrasnw (talk) 22:45, 13 May 2008 (UTC))

"To his piercing jet black eyes" - I don't believe I see any black eyes mentioned in the Russian original. --194.72.81.141 (talk) 10:02, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

@Msrasnw: Yes, the song probably should have a separate page. At the moment, it doesn't even rate a heading, the word "song" appears abruptly without any introduction. I will put a heading in for "Stenka Razin Song" as the minimum we can do to correct this. Brymor (talk) 19:05, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

"not a song that is extraordinarily popular or well-known in Russia"? Mikkalai, you must be joking. It is in tons of folk music compilations and many films. It's very well known. Or at least was until recently (I can't speak for the present situation as I don't live there).

In reply to all the complaints about the "artistic license" of the English translation, perhaps it would make sense to also add a completely literal, non-rhyming English translation or each line? Esn (talk) 02:25, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

I sang the English version of this song at my primary school in the seventies. I found this article by typing in the first stanza, the only one I could remember in full. So, at least for me, the song (and I suppose its translation too) was important. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.222.184.132 (talk) 09:09, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

I would like to know if there is a scientific reference to the song's origin, where it stems from etc. The German robber song parody "Butter Räuber von Halberstadt" is sung to the same melody and you find it e.g. in a 1863 collection. The moritat genre is quite generic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arebenti (talk • contribs) 21:18, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

The transcription/transliteration of the Russian is the weirdest thing I've ever seen. What on earth are ą, ę, ě, ǒ (among others)? They certainly don't correspond meaningfully to elements of the Russian phonological system. C0pernicus (talk) 10:20, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

Flowery language

Some of the passages here seem a bit flowery. Now, personally, I don't mind that, and I'm not a fan of the seeming tendency to declare anything that is not bland and matter-of-fact as "unencyclopaedic". However, there is one line that goes too far, to the point of being difficult to parse: "Stenka Razin, as he was generally called, had now become a potentate with whom princes did not disdain to treat". I presume that what the double negatives and old-fashioned language are saying is simply "... he had become powerful and influential enough that princes were prepared to negotiate with him", but it took a couple of re-readings to get that, so it should probably be rewritten. Wardog (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 14:09, 17 August 2011 (UTC).

Why Styenka (Stenka)

Styenka (Stenka) in Russian means wall. It's symbolic. Something on the lines of "Stonewall" Jackson. A reference to this in the main body might be relevant. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SBader (talk • contribs) 04:05, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

I think you're confusing Стенька with стенка. The second one is the diminutive of wall, the first is the diminutive of the name Степан (Stepan). C0pernicus (talk) 10:24, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Razin (disambiguation) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 22:50, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

Ship and princess

In the section In Russian language culture and folklore, the text reads "The song recounts that Razin aboard the ship tames the princess". This is the first time that either a ship or a princess is mentioned in the article, and the terms are not further explained later. As it stands, the paragraph is very unclear, and does not appear to relate to anything else in the article. Could someone expand this, and explain which princess was thrown off of which ship? RolandR (talk) 15:15, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

• I tried to fix this point: [1]--Nicoljaus (talk) 15:28, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

Bad recording?

The recording seems to have two different tunes and two singers overlaid on the same track. I found the same thing when playing the file on Wikimedia. Something strange is happening; it's as if The two tunes play together but one can be stopped before the other. The technical stuff is beyond me so all I can do is point out the problem.

Incidentally, the tune Stenka Razin is the basis for the Seekers song "the carnival is over" written by Tom Springfield. This fact is a stretch for an article about the person Stenka Razin, but might be worth mentioning in a note. Humphrey Tribble (talk) 06:28, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

The song plays fine for me on my Windows 10 PC.I have tried both Firefox and Chrome broiwsers. Brymor (talk) 09:41, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

Also it is interesting that the music quoted shows the last two lines of the verse repeating, whereas Chaliapin does not do this, he just moves on to the next verse every 8 bars. And he doesn't sing the last verse in the text (repeat of first verse) - he ends with the poor woman's soul. Brymor (talk) 16:46, 27 April 2022 (UTC)