Talk:Stephen A. Schrum

Missing info etc

What nationality is he? Do you have a birth date? These usually go in first line, and in categories.

Please look around at good Wikipedia articles and learn the style, or study WP:MOS etc: references go after punctuation, with no spaces; references to offline works (eg no. 4) do not have date of retrieval; the web addresses shouldn't ideally be showing - give us enough detail about the source to know where it comes from and be able to retrieve it later, even if the web link is temporarily (or permanently) down. There are useful templates like {{cite web}}, and you can find them from the button bar just above your editing window: much easier than doing refs from scratch.

Good luck with it all - there's a lot to learn about editing Wikipedia, but it's an interesting journey. PamD 13:55, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

A few more points: no-one writes "PHD", but "PhD"; remember you are writing a permanent encyclopedia article, so structures like "A new performance that Schrum is most recently working on" are a bad idea. I've used the {{as of}} template (I think that articles using this can be retrieved as a category at a future date if someone wants to go through and check whether the information can be updated, but the turn of phrase makes the article future-proof anyway: we've dated the information.) PamD 14:00, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

You also need to add a "Redirect" from "Stephen Schrum" - that form is used in his faculty web page and probably elsewhere, and it's always good to make redirects from any likely alternative version (a) to help the reader and (b) to reduce the chance of someone creating a duplicate article! I could have done it myself, but leave it as an educational exercise for you! PamD 14:18, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

Is "Theatre in Higher Education" (or "... Theater ...") an organisation, in which case it probably should have a WP article if at all notable, or a link to its website, or is it just a concept, in which case it doesn't need the capitalisation or my link? PamD 14:30, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

Pam's point (see above) about WP:MOS is very well made here! In our workshops on the Educational Assignment referred to at the top of this talk page, this has been brought to the attention of all involved. Hopefully, this will be considered as the next step in the exercise by the original, along with all the generous feedback from Pam, who is a very experienced Wikipedian. --ToniSant (talk) 14:34, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

Hey PamD,

Thank you for taking the time to read my article so far and provide me with this great feedback, I really appreciate it as this is my first wikipedia article. Regarding finding his nationality and date of birth this one element of research on Stephen Schrum I am having trouble finding is this a major problem if canont provide that information? I am currently in the process of editing my article with the other advice you have gave me.

I also have another question you may be able to help with earlier I contributed to the wikiwomen page however my talk name is coming up in red and does not seem to link to the information I have provided about myself on my user page is there a reason for this?

Thank you again. LydiaRDoyle1992 (talk) 20:52, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

Well done for finding out / working out how to make the Redirect: it looks good. (You can click on "What links here" from the left-hand column beside the main article, and see it smiling at you from the list there!) Redirects are good, they help people find stuff. A similarly important thing is that if ever you create an article on "Xyz (abc)", you need to add a hatnote at the main article on "Xyz" to direct people to this new one, or add it to the disambiguation page which is either at "Xyz" or at "Xyz (disambiguation)". Again, it just helps make sure that readers and editors can find your new article. (See my latest contribution Edward Denis de Vitre as an example, if you click on the "What links here": misspellings and variations galore all accounted for.)

On the wikiwomen qn, see User_talk:ToniSant#Contribution_to_wiki_meta_page - Fran asked something similar. Basically, Metawiki is a different place, you are a different user there, so you have a different user page, contribs list, talk page. (If it was a foreign language wikipedia where you had a userid, you'd want a different user page there in the appropriate language). Hope that helps.

Nationality and date of birth aren't essential for a basic article, but if the man is "notable" I'd have expected them to be available somewhere. Sometimes I end up adding a "1951 or 52" type of birthdate, eg if I find a reliable source published today saying someone is aged 60. (With much counting on fingers to work out whether its 51-52 or 52-53!)

A request/tip: if you mention an article on a talk page, please link to it - saves the author, and any "talk page stalkers", a little typing when they want to go and look at it. Thanks. PamD 14:24, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

Hey,

Thank you very much for your help and advice again, I am learning new things on wikipedia all the time and it is very useful : ) I shall take a look at your article and work on the other suggestions you have made. I shall keep looking for a date birth or age.

Thank you again.

Stephen A. Schrum

LydiaRDoyle1992 (talk) 15:34, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

Notability

While Schrum's work is very interesting to me, I am concerned that he may well not meet the notability guidelines. I would advise the editors of the article to satisfy themselves on this matter to avoid wasted effort.

The relevant pages are at WP:Notability and WP:academics.

All the best, Rich Farmbrough, 00:02, 28 October 2012 (UTC).

Rich, how about a Notability tag?  :-) I'm adding one right now. --ToniSant (talk) 09:54, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

Hey Toni,

I am really worried about why I have received this notability tag, I have worked really hard on this assessment with regards to researching Stephen A. Schrum and engaging with other wikipedians. I am going to take the advice given and look at making him more notable but can you advice anything for me to do and is this going to impact upon my mark?

LydiaRDoyle1992 (talk) 12:21, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

Have you read WP:academics closely? Make sure you follow the guidelines established there (particularly point 4) as there are aspects that can certainly help make the article clearly about a notable academic. --ToniSant (talk) 12:33, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

I have read them before, but I am re-reading them and working on changing elements of my article to make it more notable as an academic. Will this problem impact on making my mark lower? Or will it just be seen as part of the learning process of wikipedia?

LydiaRDoyle1992 (talk) 12:58, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

Don't be too concerned about your mark! It's all part of the learning process and you must demonstrate an understanding of the way Wikipedia works as an essential part of your assignment. --ToniSant (talk) 13:11, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

Ok, I am working on the page now and going through the the guidelines again. A question for Rich, I am just wondering do you mean that Stephen A. Schrum him self has not done enough to be worthy of a wikipedia page or that I need to edit the page and give more details to show that he is worthy and notable of having a wikipedia page?

LydiaRDoyle1992 (talk) 13:20, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

Hi, you are very perceptive to distinguish the two, what I meant was exactly what I said - I was concerned that Stephen himself may not meet the notability guidelines. I choose those words because I have no opinion on whether he is "worthy", simply from what was in the article at the time there seemed to me a significant chance that he would not meet the criteria.

So effectively I was giving advice from a position of ignorance about the subject that could be summed up as a statement "If this guy meets the notability criteria, it is not abundantly apparent from the article." And implicitly (I should have probably said it explicitly) if he does, it is a good idea for the article to reflect that.

All the best, Rich Farmbrough, 23:35, 28 October 2012 (UTC).

Ok thank you for the advice, I am new to wikipedia and will therefore continue to edit the article and make it more notable.

LydiaRDoyle1992 (talk) 00:05, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

Notability has been clearly established, so I've removed the tag. --ToniSant (talk) 20:17, 30 October 2012 (UTC)