Talk:Stephen Foster

Disputed Section: My Old Kentucky Home

A part of the article talking about his musical claims that Federal Hill in Kentucky was the inspiration for the song My Old Kentucky Home. However, the musical itself portrays Stephen Foster becoming inspired by the song after John Rowan beats a slave. John Rowan died nine years before the song was ever written. Also there is significant reason to believe that the song was originally written about Harriet Beecher Stowe's "Uncle Tom's Cabin", and that the lyrics were changed before publication. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nonathy (talk • contribs) 04:56, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

Cultural References

"Her door bell plays a bar of Steven Foster" Lyrics in Siver Jews song "Tennessee" released 2001 on the album "Bright Flight" "Met the ghost of Stephen Foster at the Hotel Paradise" Lyrics in Squirrel Nut Zippers song "Ghost of Stephen Foster" released on the album "Perennial Favorites" —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.193.216.122 (talk) 00:32, August 22, 2007 (UTC)

Rachel?

Any relation to Rachel Foster Avery?

Excellent comment

You are absolutely, without question correct. That subject must be treated with precision and cannot be ignored. It sort of goes along with 'what do we do about the confederate flag'? You are most certainly qualified to make edits to the article that help represent this topic and I certainly welcome any and all input. If you don't want to do the editing in the article, then leave a message here-but we have to be able to have a reference for every statement that is made in the article. Please help out if you can. You have pointed out one of the most important thing about Stephen Foster and it can't be ignored.

Barbara (WVS) (talk) 13:33, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

I'm not qualified to make changes, but I'm surprised how lightly the Stephen Foster article treats the impact of racist lyrics on his current popularity.66.41.227.134 (talk) 13:35, 22 April 2014 (UTC)Rodgers Adams

Stephen Foster and race

Barbara (WVS) The talk page about Stephen Foster would be a better place to respond to your request to share ideas about his use of race within his body of work and life.

WHY? ---Dagme (talk) 13:49, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

Also, other interested editors can participate.

If you have a sample of writing I can look at, then I can be more useful to you. Unfortunately, I have never researched Foster's life. Therefore, I cannot say anything about him. I am willing to be a peer reviewer for your ideas. I am interested in articles that deal with the idea of race. Mitchumch (talk) 13:25, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Thank you so much Mitchumch! With your expertise, things could only improve in this article. I might suggest that you take a short look at some of his song lyrics (pretty shocking sometimes looking through our 2015 lens). You are welcome to simply comment on the lyrics if you wish. If you have any info on the background of that historical period and race, that would be helpful. Also, Foster was not an abolitionist. Here are some things to look at: "Angelina Baker", "Beautiful Dreamer", "Camptown Races", "Gentle Annie", "The Glendy Burk", "Hard Times Come Again No More", "Jeanie with the Light Brown Hair", "My Old Kentucky Home", "Oh! Susanna", "Old Black Joe", "Old Folks at Home". Please don't feel like you have to get too involved, it's your perspective I am interested in. Best Regards,

Barbara (WVS) (talk) 16:56, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

The only people who would be "shocked" by Foster's lyrics are the chrono-centric who have never bothered to learn any history.

Indeed.

"Regardless of Foster’s personal opinions, many abolitionists favorably viewed his songs and performed them to help persuade more people to support the abolition of enslavement. Such plantation songs as “Old Folks at Home,” “My Old Kentucky Home,” and “Massa’s in de Cold Ground” were frequently included in theatrical productions of Harriet Beecher Stowe’s abolitionist novel Uncle Tom’s Cabin (1852). Moreover, the members of the Hutchinson family, renowned performers and abolitionists, included ""“Nelly Bly,” ""“Gentle Annie,” and “Old Folks at Home” in their activist concerts. Even Frederick Douglass celebrated plantation songs. In an 1855 address to the Ladies Anti-Slavery Society in Rochester, New York, he stated,

"It would seem almost absurd to say it, considering the use that has been made of them, that we have allies in the Ethiopian songs; those songs that constitute our national music, and without which we have no national music. They are heart songs, and the finest feelings of human nature are expressed in them. “Lucy Neal,” “Old Kentucky Home,” and “Uncle Ned,” can make the heart sad as well as merry, and can call forth a tear as well as a smile. They awaken the sympathies for the slave, in which anti-slavery principles take root, grow and flourish.""

From, The Life and Music of Stephen Collins Foster," by Christopher Lynch. (p. 329) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.95.43.253 (talk) 00:38, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

Additional references

• http://bluegrasstoday.com/150-years-of-civil-war-music/
• https://quod.lib.umich.edu/m/mp/9460447.0001.203/--singing-a-new-song-stephen-foster-and-the-new-american?rgn=main;view=fulltext added 7/14/2017

Barbara (WVS) (talk) 15:16, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

Slavery

There is no logic to the statement that "Though they lived in a northern city, his family did not support the abolition of slavery". Opposition to slavery was not universal in northern cities, nor did living in a Northern city make one automatically an abolitionist. Many northerners were in fact supporters of slavery.203.80.61.102 (talk) 19:20, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

POV

"for its depiction of an African-American banjo player at the feet of the seated composer. Critics say the statue glorifies white appropriation of black culture, and depicts the vacantly smiling musician in a way that is at best condescending and at worst racist."[39]

I realize this is a quotation from an actual news source, and as such, it has been rendered accurately. It does not, however, render an accurate description of the statue in question, but rather a highly-biased view of the statue's assumed significance.

The banjo player is only presumed to be "African-American"; there is no citation from the sculptor stating this to be the case. Indeed, the banjo player bears a not insignificant resemblance to Pete Seeger, a white folk musician, who counted some of Foster's material among his repertory. Secondly, the banjo play is seated not at Foster's "feet", but at his side. Finally, the observation that the musician is smiling "vacantly", reflects a high degree of personal bias -- he may well be smiling because he's a talented musician, enjoying the music he is playing.

The description of the statue and the reason for its removal depicts only a single side of a multifaceted issue, an approach unworthy of an ostensibly "encyclopedic" article. Some balance, please? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.95.43.249 (talk) 20:13, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

Note that Foster is wearing shoes, but the banjo player isn't. Chronology also prohibits the banjo player from having any relation to Seeger, who was born in 1919. The sculpture is from 1900. I don't know if "vacant smile" is the right assessment, but compare his expression with Foster's. You can say he's at Foster's side, but he is sitting on whatever Foster is standing on. deisenbe (talk) 20:54, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

It probably escapes most folks' notice that the Foster statue is holding a copy of his song 'Uncle Ned'. Perhaps that was thought his best work? The lyrics read:

Dere was an old Nig.., dey call’d him Uncle Ned He’s dead long ago, long ago! He had no wool on de top ob his head De place whar de wool ought to grow

(Chorus) Den lay down de shubble and de hoe Hang up de fiddle and de bow: No more work for poor Old Ned He’s gone where the good Ni*gas go

When Old Ned die Massa take it mighty bad De tears run down like de rain; Old missus turn pale, and she gets berry sad Cayse she nebber see Old Ned again

Maybe the banjo player was simply intended to be the personification of Uncle Ned.

Is that 'racist'? Yes, and no, I suppose. It rather depends on ones point of view. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.19.55.95 (talk) 18:12, 9 August 2020 (UTC)