Talk:Stephen King/Archive 3

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Quoterdämmerung

The template informs us that "This article contains too many or overly lengthy quotations for an encyclopedia entry." That's been there since June, but no one has identified the offending quotes.

The article has several quotes from King, two of which are about a paragraph in length; they're from his nonfiction books Danse Macabre and On Writing, respectively. Is that excessive? I don't think so. I think the quotes provide insight into King's creative process. The Wikipedia article for Roger Ebert (which I have contributed to) has several quotes from Ebert that are over a paragraph in length, and it's a certified "Good article." (Not that I'm complaining; I think those quotes are illuminating, too.)

Someone should either identify the quotes that should be removed, or remove the template. Charlie Faust (talk) 03:18, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

The filmography lists IT Part 2 which mentions IT [part 1] but that isn't listed. Why?

The filmography lists IT Part 2 which mentions IT [part 1] but that isn't listed. Why? WordwizardW (talk) 15:26, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

If you see something you think needs fixing, fix it! Charlie Faust (talk) 17:54, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

King made a cameo in the sequel but didn't appear in the first film. The filmography isn't for listing the movies based upon King's works, unless he received some other credit for them. Jessintime (talk) 18:43, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

Philanthropist

I think this deserves to be mentioned in the lead, if not the infobox. MOS:ROLEBIO has been cited; I don't think his philanthrophy is a "sundry" role. In Maine he is primarily known for his philanthropic work these days; he is categorized in Category:Philanthropists from Maine which is itself categorized under Category:People from Maine by occupation. Philantropists by state is also categorized under Category:American people by occupation by state so I think philanthropist can indeed be an occupation. 331dot (talk) 12:57, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

King has done lots of things, including musician, entrepreneur, broadcast owner, and philanthropist. Listing all of these in the infobox and in the lead is contrary to MOS:ROLEBIO. He is primarily known as a writer. We need a consensus to make an exception. Sundayclose (talk) 12:59, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

I don't propose listing all of those things, nor do I think he is primarily notable as a musician, entrepreneur, and broadcast owner. 331dot (talk) 13:01, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

And I don't propose listing anything other than author, which is his primary occupation and for which he is known. If you ask the average person, "What does Stephen King do?", the answer will almost always be writer or author, not philanthropist. Musician, entrepreneur, and broadcast owner are just as much a part of his bio as philanthropist. The point is, we only list his primary occupation. Again, this requires consensus to single out one activity over all others. Philanthropy and other activities can be discussed in the article, but not in the infobox or lead. Sundayclose (talk) 13:07, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

His philanthropy makes national news (LA Times, USA Today, CNN) and clearly is not something that he does on the side. If that's not an "occupation" for the infobox, okay, but there is no reason not to mention this in the lead. 331dot (talk) 14:01, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

Which, if "philanthropist" is not an occupation, I might suggest that you nominate some categories for deletion or renaming. 331dot (talk) 14:02, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

I can selectively scour the internet to find "national news" about his other activities. In the past, I have seen news reports on national TV about his musical activities, but he's not primarily a musician. But that's sidetracking the real issue, which is notability for anything in addition to writing. And I think you missed one of my points. I'm saying that "philanthropist" should be in neither the infobox nor the lead. As for categories, feel free to nominate for deletion or renaming as you wish. That's not my concern. My concern is that the lead and infobox should only contain his primary activity, which is writer, per MOS:ROLEBIO. Any exception requires consensus here. Many famous and/or wealthy individuals such as actors have philanthropic activities, but you don't see it in the infobox or lead. As just one example, Barack Obama has been involved in numerous philanthropic activities but does not have "philanthropist" in his infobox. There are many, many other examples. Sundayclose (talk) 15:05, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

I didn't miss your point, I'm trying to compromise with you and reach WP:CONSENSUS. I don't think Barack Obama is an appropriate comparison as his political career outweighs pretty much everything else he has done. I don't think that's the case here. My only point with the categories is that this can be considered an occupation. 331dot (talk) 15:43, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

I don't see any compromise because any inclusion of philanthropist requires an exception to MOS:ROLEBIO. And Obama is as good an example as King. King's writing career outweighs everything else he has done. But again I think you miss the point. Obama is just one of many examples. Anyway, unless you can come around to accepting the limitations of MOS:ROLEBIO we'll just have to see if there are other opinions. Sundayclose (talk) 15:54, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

One more point: It is utterly and laughably absurd to state "philanthropist" before "author" as his occupation, as you did when you reverted my edit. Sundayclose (talk) 16:00, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

Fair point. I've just removed it since it is disputed and was recently added(not by me). As I said I don't think the policy has been interpreted correctly here and that no "exception" is required; that this change falls well within it, but I have plenty on my plate so I'm not able to actively pursue this further. 331dot (talk) 16:47, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

I agree that "philanthropist" doesn't belong in the lead, as it's not what King is primarily known for. If you were profiling, say, Andrew Carnegie, someone known as a philanthropist, it would belong in the lead. But King is primarily known as a novelist, and that's what should be in the lead.

That doesn't mean that King's philanthropy isn't worth mentioning. In The New Yorker, Mark Singer writes that King "also subsidizes the National Poetry Foundation". That was in 1997; anyone know if he still does?

King's Philtrum Press seems worth mentioning, don't you think? But there's nothing about it in the article. I'd also be interested in knowing more about the radio stations King and his wife own; there's a sentence about it under "Personal life", but it seems like something to expand upon. Charlie Faust (talk) 17:29, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Agree that "Philanthropist" does not belong in the infobox, as it is not what King is best known for. His philanthropic work merits mention, and indeed is mentioned elsewhere in the article. It's just not the most notable aspect of his life. King is known as an Author and it's appropriate that that get top billing. King is also an amateur musician, but you won't find that in infobox, nor should you.

The page for Bob Dylan (a Featured Article) lists him as a "singer-songwriter". That's appropriate, as that is what Dylan is known as. Dylan has been recognized for philanthropy, too; that doesn't mean he should be noted as a "philanthropist". (He's also done acting, but you will not see him listed as "Actor", nor should you, as that's far from the best known of his many facets.)

To wit: the infobox should include what a person is best known for. Charlie Faust (talk) 21:34, 3 March 2024 (UTC)