Talk:Stirrup jar

1st paragraph pop-in

Hello John. I see you are fairly zealous about this, I hope not over-zealous. You are right about one thing, these Bronze-age articles are for the birds, which is why I got off it in the first place. It isn't a beginning topic, John. Just anyone cannot effectively throw in their two cents. I'm willing to help now, but only if the resistance is minimal. We aren't here to pat people on the back and say, my, what a great contribution you have made, real professional. From now on this is YOUR article. That is how bad articles get perpetuated and improvement gets effectively blocked. That having been said, notice how technical this article is getting. Your popin didn't really fit. The Mycenaean aspect has to be introduced later, as according to this theorist, the pottery began as Aegean; that is, middle minoan (not Mycenaean). So you can work it in if you must under that part of the text. Also the English was sort of awkward. To tell you the truth I am avoiding blue links to bad articles. The reader might find such references very confusing. One more thing. Correcting all the articles you want corrected is not a little problem to be solved by popins, but is a big problem to be solved by rewrites. I can only inch up on it a small article at a time. So far all I have gotten is flak, except for your cries for help and indecision as to whether you actually want it. Those big articles I put on hold until I can get a few points straightened out. The most immediate one is the meaning of Aegean. Mainland Greece is not Aegean, and it would take a big-wig theorist to say it is, someone recent I have not encountered. So, that is sort of on hold in the due process. Ciao, I got work to do (thank G.).Botteville (talk) 16:22, 9 December 2018 (UTC)

I don't really care where it goes, except it should be somewhere near the top, but this article NEEDS a link to our long but perhaps not very good article on Mycenaean pottery. That doesn't solve much but it is a necessary step. The article would have to be much worse than it is to justify deliberately not linking to it. Do you have a link for the mainland not being "Aegean"? As you know, I had a look, & all I found was ones saying it was, which was what I'd thought in the first place. My issue with the definitions was that they failed to mention the bits of Anatolian coast involved. Johnbod (talk) 16:40, 9 December 2018 (UTC)

Well. If you really want the link in and are not going to put it in yourself I suppose I can find a place for it. I can only do one thing at a time here. The article is still under development so it might not be for a few days, as I am researching some things out. For the Aegean, I see you remain skeptical and you put the ball in my court. I don't know what you may have checked - not WP articles I hope. But you know, I left the request for citations on the Aegean article, so the ball technically is in anyone else's but my court. Those statements ARE unreferenced. However, I recognize that answer as a personal put-off. Since I have been personally challenged I am starting to feel an obligation to research it myself. I'm going to do that. If I find that the article is right, I will add my references in support of it and go on from there. As you can see, I dom't take references lightly. If I find that the scholars never heard of it, but have their own definition, I will let you know, with references. Then we can agree on a method of fixing the articles. It is possible that the meaning of the word has changed. In that case, as with the definitions section, we ought to cover both meanings, "cover" comprising a number of possibilities. As a sort of aside, I should say that web sites from our buddies and blogs of all sort are not references. We need bona fide scholarly work. I think I explained my matrix method somewhere else. I tend to jump from one thing to another, so I cannot say exactly when I will be doing this reasearch. I plan to gear up for it soon, though, rather than later. For the definitions, I see we are not through with that. I abandoned it too hastily. I don't know what you mean about the Anatolian, and I never offered any text on the subject. What have you got in mind there? You want to know how the sequence dubbed "Greek pottery" plays out in Anatolia (I guess?) Frankly I would have to research that too. It seems to me Aegean takes priority. Since you remain interested I suppose I can put that back on the forward burners, I think, as long as you continue to be interested and stay polite and reasonable there is a lot we can do. I can't do it all at once so some patience is required. If I do not see your messages immediately or for a few days it means I am busy on some aspect of it. My effort is primarily archaeological, sometimes artifacts, sometimes site and cities. If I can't fix an article I am inclined just to do something to improve it and then go on. I work on categories a lot, as it seems a neglected and needy corner. Well this reply cost me at least 3/4 hour so I would like to get back to work. Ciao.

Clarification of krairewes

I accept your change, but nothing is being "clarified" by it. That is because it isn't clear to start with. No one knows the connection. You will note I did not state any. This is one of those etymological mysteries descending from the shadows. Why did they call the pot a head? Who knows? One might guess a "head" is a standard unit of some sort, and the there is good evidence that the pot contained a standard liquid measure. In what sense that is a head, extremity, or protrusion is not known. I do believe "head" as head is used in another liquid measure context but my feeling is, this is too specific for this article. Maybe "head" sounds like some pre-Greek word. We aren't looking at liquid measures, only at the pot. That is not to say I would try to suppress any other point of view. If you find some suggestions, you can create a paragraph for them, but I think I will just leave it alone. Remember now, this is the sort of thing where we leave the conjectures up to others, so if you find something, be sure a put your reference in. Ciao.Botteville (talk) 00:26, 12 March 2019 (UTC)