Talk:Stoat

Weasel Photo

The photo in "Physical Description" -> "Build" is clearly labeled "Weasel" --120.32.145.217 (talk) 06:41, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

The Latin name underneath shows what it really is. Stoats are sometimes called "weasels" in America and Ireland.Mariomassone (talk) 08:48, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

References in pop culture

• In the book The Wind in the Willows, by Kenneth Grahame, stoats were among the occupiers of Toad Hall after Mr. Toad was imprisoned.
• In the Redwall series, by Brian Jacques, stoats appear as antagonists in virtually every book.
• In The Wild Thornberrys, a stoat was an antagonist in the episode Show Me The Bunny.
• In the His Dark Materials series, by Philip Pullman, the main character's daemon frequently takes the form of an ermine.
• In Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone, the character Hagrid offers Harry Potter stoat sandwiches on several occasions.
• In the anime/manga Negima the character Chamo is a talking Ermine. Also, being transformed into an ermine is a punishment for various crimes.
• In the Eddie Dickens Trilogy, by Philip Ardagh, Even Madder Aunt Maud has a stuffed stoat she carries with her everywhere and calls Malcolm.
• The popular website Cute Overload uses a stoat themed song to encourage voting.

These should be properly cited before reinclusion. Kthxbai. dfg (talk) 04:15, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Move to ermine?

Ermine has about 3 times as many google hits as stoat, and the animal's latin name is Mustela erminea. Is there some other valid reason why this article is using the title stoat? - TheMightyQuill (talk) 22:47, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes but ermine has more uses than stoat, so you would expect it to have more results. I thought ermine was used as the name of the stoat during winter months when it is all white (apart from the tip of the tail), hence calling the white pelt an ermine. I'm sure stoat must be the more common name used by more people than ermine. Chris_huh^talk 18:14, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

I think ermine is US usage, stoat UK. Certainly in the latter, ermine usually refers to the fur/pelt, or winter coat of the stoat. Not too bothered either way, but not sure why 'ermine' is capitalized throughout the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.96.5.226 (talk) 22:23, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

I agree on capitalisation, and I have switched them to lower case. I will leave someone else to decide if the plural is "ermine" or "ermines" - at present the article has a mix. Grafen (talk) 20:36, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

The change of name from stoat to ermine seems to violate normal Wikipedia policies, since stoat is undoubtedly the correct common name everywhere but North America, and since the article was first written under that name it ought to be retained. Furthermore using the name ermine degrades a useful distinction, between the animal in its winter and summer coats. Yet another case where the software is inadequate - these are really two titles of equal validity and it is awkward to have to privilege either. Sometimes one can escape a decision by titling an article by a systematic name rather than a common name, but to do so for such a familiar animal also goes against the grain. seglea (talk) 14:46, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

The heading of this section is out of date as the article is currently under "Ermine". Plus, we now have an article where the first bold headword is different from the title. Not a great idea generally. There are other minor bumps too - the pic of the "stuffed ermine" from Bristol looks really odd, since nobody in Bristol would ever call something looking like that an ermine. I'm not really fussed about the name of the article, but I don't really see why it was moved in the first place. "The US has more people than the UK" would imply always using US names for things that occur in both countries, but that doesn't happen and indeed flies in the face of WP practice. 81.158.1.233 (talk) 02:23, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

I Agree, with the move to Ermine. In Canada the word Stoat is barely known and certainly hardly ever used. Most use Ermine, some use some erroneous weasel terminology. If there is no move, then at least the lead should include Ermine as linguistic common usage. for example the Yukon Government website: http://www.env.gov.yk.ca/animals-habitat/mammals/ermineweasel.php Tallard (talk) 05:15, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Elizabeth 1 has an ermine on her arm

‘the Virgin Queen’ painted with an ermine on her arm. In this painting the ermine has, unnaturally, black spots over its entire body

The above section which is found below the Queen's portrait is possibly more representative of the stoats natural colouring when in change than stated. The colour change may take only a few days in cold areas and might in warmer areas go a more patchy colour and appear more like the portait's stoat although the symmetrical nature of the coat is suspect it might have areas similar.

I assume this change in colour to be similar to that of a Siamese cat who seem to have areas of creamy coat that slowly go darker or lighter in different temperature conditions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Parismouse (talk • contribs) 15:33, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

The living stoat is a symbol for the ermine coat, which those Royals normally are painted. The spots are the black tail ends, which are sewed on the ermine garments.--Kürschner (talk) 04:37, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Do stoats 'transfixing' rabbits?

I can find no evidence of it - indeed the video footage of Stoats hunting rabbits is anything but transfixing, they chase them down. I suspect this is a myth. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Derivadow (talk • contribs) 23:59, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Range map

The range map should include New Zealand. DGERobertson (talk) 15:48, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Winter coat

The article lacks a photograph of the stoat in its winter coat. -- B.D.Mills  (T, C) 02:08, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Reproduction

Citations needed for references to ".. its mating system is promiscuous. Copulation occurs during the mating season with multiple partners and is often forced by the male, who does not help raise the offspring. Sometimes it occurs when the female is so young that she has not even left the den." I've not found anything to substantiate this. I also believe use of the word "promiscuous" is an opinion. Svsinnys (talk) 22:11, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

Range map colour issue

The range map, being in red and green specifically, is impossible for some people with colour blindness to read at all. I'll add this to the category of articles with graphics problematic for colour blind users, in the hope that this graphic can be altered. Otherwise it's a great article.NearlyDrNash (talk) 19:57, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Etymology

I commend the person who cites John Guillim's Display of Heraldrie in reference to the origin of "ermine" in "Armenia". Clearly, this folk etymology is of some antiquity - but it is a folk etymology all the same. Wiktionary cites the correct ancestry of the word: Middle English ermine (also ermin, ermyn), from Old French hermine (also ermine, ermin), from Old Dutch (or a close relative thereof) *harmino "ermine skin", a derivative of *harmo "stoat, weasel", from Proto-Germanic *harmōn "ermine" (compare Old English hearma "stoat, weasel, shrew(?)", Old High German harmo (adj. harmin)), from Proto-Indo-European *ḱormon (compare Romansch carmun "stoat", obsolete Lithuanian šarmuõ "stoat").

Regarding the given possible etymologies of "stoat": a borrowing from Gothic stautan "to push", while not impossible, would be so markedly unusual as to be unlikely; in addition, the semantic connection is rather weak. The "Belgic" language, given as the source of stout "bold" (actually from Old French estout "brave, fierce, proud", from earlier estolt "strong" (compare Modern High German stolz "proud, haughty, arrogant, stately")) is not clearly defined in the given link. Obscurum per obscurius ((explaining) the obscure by means of the more obscure) is the refuge of scoundrels. A more promising match can be found in the Old Norse stútr. Compare its descendants: Swedish stut "bull", Danish stud "bullock, steer", Scottish English stot "ox, bull; heifer (dialectical); inferior/worthless horse (obsolete)". The Scots language also contains a related and very relevant verb: to stot (Stotting) "to bounce, to walk with a bounce". This appears to have some limited cognates (Dutch stuiteren, Swedish studsa (both "to bounce")). The bounding gait of mustelids can well be described, in terms of "walking with a bounce", as "stotting".

174.91.140.173 (talk) 19:26, 1 December 2012 (UTC) (Casey Goranson)

('actually from Old French' = but not in any documented fashion) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.169.168.165 (talk) 09:00, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

Allow me to produce some links to Old French documents containing "estout":

1) Medieval France: An Encyclopedia — https://books.google.ca/books?id=MQoKeohhNkMC&pg=PA620&lpg=PA620&dq=Old+French+%22estout%22&source=bl&ots=M48OCzAeFt&sig=MkvF8yCdvv0bFbmjSzildybLpM4&hl=en&sa=X&ei=SmNlVc2iBMGxsATZyoK4Bg&ved=0CDIQ6AEwBDgU#v=onepage&q=Old%20French%20%22estout%22&f=false

2) Constructions of Childhood and Youth in Old French Narrative — https://books.google.ca/books?id=wTtI-gEUQFEC&pg=PA165&lpg=PA165&dq=Old+French+%22estout%22&source=bl&ots=jWyQwrdeNk&sig=No8J-lvRqK0vawteBjPE2TvpuU0&hl=en&sa=X&ei=emdlVa6kIcmxsAT8zoC4Bw&ved=0CEEQ6AEwCDge#v=onepage&q=Old%20French%20%22estout%22&f=false

3) Jehan Renart: Le lai de l'ombre (line 84) — http://www.liv.ac.uk/media/livacuk/modern-languages-and-cultures/liverpoolonline/ombre.pdf

And for the connection between "stout" and "estout": https://books.google.ca/books?id=8GcCAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA122&lpg=PA122&dq=Old+French+%22estout%22&source=bl&ots=qjnMcgDAIu&sig=u-5MymW3dv4QpKfprh68ekstNEM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=32dlVZuZKKbfsATLzYDoAg&ved=0CCUQ6AEwAjgo#v=onepage&q=estout&f=false

104.204.246.128 (talk) 06:53, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

Why does "ermilin" redirect here?

Not mentioned in article. Is this a former genus, or what is it? 109.157.79.50 (talk) 23:07, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a forum for boasting

This sentence has no citations and smacks of outright national aggrandizement: "The Soviet Union also contained the highest grades of stoat pelts, with the best grade North American pelts being comparable only to the 9th grade in the quality criteria of former Soviet stoat standards." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.252.66.102 (talk) 23:54, 12 July 2016 (UTC)

Did you even bother to check the source? https://archive.org/stream/mammalsofsov212001gept#page/1028/mode/2up -Mariomassone (talk) 07:42, 13 July 2016 (UTC)