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Latest comment: 13 years ago6 comments2 people in discussion
Hi! I don't mean to be rude, so if I come off that way, I apologize. I was looking through my watchlist and discovered that you reverted my edit at Stoyanka Kurbatova. I can understand removing the PROD template, I often use it for just that: to prod people into action over a neglected article. I can't help but notice, however, that you allowed the source I deleted to stay on the page after the revert, when it doesn't meet WP:RS, WP:BLP, or WP:NOR.
That the site is created by Olympic Historians, I am not disputing, though it has an inordinate amount of ads for an historical committee and is partnered with the marketing conglomerate, Fantasy Sports Ventures, thus making the site suspect. However, if you had perused the site's sources, you would have seen that the entire site is composed entirely of original research and is a primary source that cannot be used in any Biography of a Living Person. This is, currently, one of the few Wikilaws that is more or less set in stone. The only books mentioned on the site are those that have been written by the site's contributors; there is no bibliography of published sources for their statistics. Their research stands unsupported. I'm deleting the source again, and also including this on the talk page, so everyone can benefit from it. Grand High Poobah of Western Bastardia (talk) 19:04, 29 December 2010 (UTC)Reply
Well, that's my mistake then. Still, it seems kind of shady that no justification, that I can see, has been given to support this site's authenticity, other than the credentials of the site's authors, in which case, it is still a self-published source and unacceptable as per WP:BLP, and a single quote from Sports Illustrated, which gave their opinion on the site as a short comment, rather than vetting the site. Shouldn't there be an independent source to confirm SR's authenticity, perhaps one that is qualified to vet statistical analysts, as opposed to a source that is qualified to vet hockey players?
...and the argument that it has been used before is hardly watertight. It has not been 'widely' accepted, either; It's only been used in a handful of featured articles, few of which came to verbal conclusion about the site. Most of the [...]-reference.com sites come from the same 2-3 people, and they are all self-published sources and original research. You have been unable to provide me with sufficient data to convince me that this site, and its affiliates, are acceptable in a BLP.
Self-published sources should never be used as third-party sources about living persons, even if the author is an expert, well-known professional researcher, or writer.
You are welcome to raise it on RSN again, though given I only gave three out of the couple dozen of discussions I could have, I suspect you will be wasting your time. This has been so well established for years (see links on User:Ealdgyth/FAC cheatsheet (and if you've never faced Victoria's grilling of your sources, I envy you.)) that no one who works or reviews sports articles at the FAC/FLC level even questions it anymore. Courcelles22:19, 29 December 2010 (UTC)Reply
You could have just said "The Cabal supports it", from the start, and I would have believed you! :-D Eh, I'm a twerp; I just make these arguments for fun (and to improve WP's consistency on its own rules) to see how much logic and reference to the rules will actually change Wikipedia. So far, it hasn't. Ever. ...which solidifies my opinion that Wikipedia is hypocritical, because I will get the same damn argument if I use a self-published source in a BLP, and my reference won't stick. Grand High Poobah of Western Bastardia (talk) 22:40, 29 December 2010 (UTC)Reply
