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Proposed merge with Cornerman (basketball)
editSame content/general idea as found in the cornerman page. I actually think the cornerman page should be renamed "stretch forward". thoriyan tlk - ctrbs 00:38, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
- Its hard to see if they are the same as they are so poorly referenced. I'm finding most of the content in Cornerman (basketball) to be original research which I can't find sources.—Bagumba (talk) 22:58, 27 July 2014 (UTC)
- I bit the bullet and merged them. I think there is a subtle difference which I've tried to highlight in the article, although I've often seen the terms used interchangeably. I've tried to add some references and tidy things up a bit so things aren't repeated (the two articles featured the same lists of players and even the same play styles). Unfortunately someone was editing that page as I merged them, so I've had to go back and re-add some content. I think (hope?) this is a little more organised/referenced now (although the latter still needs work)? Bullblade (talk) 18:44, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
- I oppose that merge. They're not the same thing. Stretch fours primarily play the power forward position, while cornermen and combo forwards alternate between small and power forward positions. Furthermore, "four" should not be capitalized. pbp 09:31, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
- Hi Purplebackpack89. Thank you for commentating and not reversing the edit. I appreciate they are not exactly the same thing (and I have tried to differentiate the terms in the article, which wasn't the case when they were separate entries) but I think this is one of those things that has changed over time, perhaps because of a change in tactics at the very highest level (NBA - and I say that as someone from Europe) rather than a change in the English language? It used to be the case that you would hear "cornerman" far more frequently than "stretch-four", but I think many people now use the two terms interchangeably (almost always meaning a stretch-four), perhaps because cornermen who can't shoot the three are very rare? If we agree that language is mailable then we can perhaps assume many people will be coming here and looking at the cornerman page for information on a stretch four (certainly the way that page was edited suggested many editors thought the position was a stretch four, as the comments above highlight! The talk sections on both pages suggested a merge, and while compiling the "small ball" page I initially thought they should be merge). I would certainly not be opposed to undoing the forward and creating a new "cornerman" page (I just think the old one was just too similar to the stretch four page!) highlighting the traditional use of the term, perhaps with an explanation that the term is now frequently used to describe a player with stretch four ability, if you think that is the way forward? All the best. Bullblade (talk) 06:23, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
- I'm not sure if I am comfortable with SportingCharts.com being a suitable reliable source. My main concern is that "cornerman" needs more evidence of being a commonly used term described in multiple reliable sources.—Bagumba (talk) 16:53, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
- That is a fair point. IIRC the pages (both pages) weren't sourced at all (apart from an external links category - no references) and had multiple headers identifying this. I am probably guilty of trying to find sources for things other people have written in an attempt to fix that issue (and delete the header). If we can come to some sort of consensus on how both pages (and the Power Forward page, which is what I initially started working on before getting side tracked with this page) should look I don't mind spending some time editing them all, tidying them up, fixing problems and finding suitable references where appropriate when I have a spare hour or two.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Bullblade (talk • contribs) 07:37, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
- I've tagged the Cornerman section for improvement of sources. At some point, if it's not improved, I'd suggest deleting the unsourced/poorly sourced material, with no prejudice to it being restored when sourcing improves.—Bagumba (talk) 02:08, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
- That is a fair point. IIRC the pages (both pages) weren't sourced at all (apart from an external links category - no references) and had multiple headers identifying this. I am probably guilty of trying to find sources for things other people have written in an attempt to fix that issue (and delete the header). If we can come to some sort of consensus on how both pages (and the Power Forward page, which is what I initially started working on before getting side tracked with this page) should look I don't mind spending some time editing them all, tidying them up, fixing problems and finding suitable references where appropriate when I have a spare hour or two.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Bullblade (talk • contribs) 07:37, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
- I'm not sure if I am comfortable with SportingCharts.com being a suitable reliable source. My main concern is that "cornerman" needs more evidence of being a commonly used term described in multiple reliable sources.—Bagumba (talk) 16:53, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
- Hi Purplebackpack89. Thank you for commentating and not reversing the edit. I appreciate they are not exactly the same thing (and I have tried to differentiate the terms in the article, which wasn't the case when they were separate entries) but I think this is one of those things that has changed over time, perhaps because of a change in tactics at the very highest level (NBA - and I say that as someone from Europe) rather than a change in the English language? It used to be the case that you would hear "cornerman" far more frequently than "stretch-four", but I think many people now use the two terms interchangeably (almost always meaning a stretch-four), perhaps because cornermen who can't shoot the three are very rare? If we agree that language is mailable then we can perhaps assume many people will be coming here and looking at the cornerman page for information on a stretch four (certainly the way that page was edited suggested many editors thought the position was a stretch four, as the comments above highlight! The talk sections on both pages suggested a merge, and while compiling the "small ball" page I initially thought they should be merge). I would certainly not be opposed to undoing the forward and creating a new "cornerman" page (I just think the old one was just too similar to the stretch four page!) highlighting the traditional use of the term, perhaps with an explanation that the term is now frequently used to describe a player with stretch four ability, if you think that is the way forward? All the best. Bullblade (talk) 06:23, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
- I oppose that merge. They're not the same thing. Stretch fours primarily play the power forward position, while cornermen and combo forwards alternate between small and power forward positions. Furthermore, "four" should not be capitalized. pbp 09:31, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
- I bit the bullet and merged them. I think there is a subtle difference which I've tried to highlight in the article, although I've often seen the terms used interchangeably. I've tried to add some references and tidy things up a bit so things aren't repeated (the two articles featured the same lists of players and even the same play styles). Unfortunately someone was editing that page as I merged them, so I've had to go back and re-add some content. I think (hope?) this is a little more organised/referenced now (although the latter still needs work)? Bullblade (talk) 18:44, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
Stretch 5
editFor quite a while, there has been the stretch 4 in the NBA, which is power forwards that can shoot threes or small ball small forwards at the four spot. Now today, we are seeing a rise in the stretch 5. We seen it in players like Chris Bosh, Lamarcus Aldridge, Dirk Nowitzki, Kristaps Porzingis and many more examples of stretch power forwards playing the 5. Now, there is an actual stretch 5 which is a center the size of an NBA center and has the skill set of the NBA center, but can also shoot the three, just like the stretch four. Examples are Karl Anthony Towns, Joel Embiid, Brook Lopez just recently this year, Al Horford, and this list will expand in future NBA seasons. NBA centers are typically the closest to the basket and the tallest player on their team. They have always been responsible for many points in the paint, the primary rebounders and some centers are also top notch shot blockers. Now, we are seeing a rise in centers that have the capability of shooting the three in their regular center "5" position, stretching the floor and the opposing defense, thus making the name stretch 5. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:BD29:4840:78D2:5D32:B494:444F (talk) 02:53, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
Combo forward
editCombo forward currently redirects here, but it seems like a stretch four might be a type of combo forward, but is not the equivalent.[1].—Bagumba (talk) 08:10, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
- Retargeted to Glossary of basketball terms.—Bagumba (talk) 15:29, 6 December 2019 (UTC)