Talk:Strikeforce: Carano vs. Cyborg

Overeem vs Rogers match

This match has not been officially announced anywhere. It's only rumored currently. It could happen, it might happen. But it's not official yet. Wikipedia is not a rumor site, it's for facts only. Please don't add this fight (or any other rumored fight) to this article unless you have some sources that show it been official. --Tuoppi gm (talk) 19:31, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

I made an edit and cited a source (Showtime) that says Overeem will fight on August 15, so he is official. Please don't change the TBA to Rogers or delete the fact that Overeem will be in the Octagon that Saturday night, thanks!

It's a credible enough source for me. I won't be reverting Overeem anymore from this card. --Tuoppi gm (talk) 08:11, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Showtime is not a source (A Source is mmajunkie.com or mmamania.com) (AN MMA SITE)

Stay classy Forrestdfuller! I like you kind words in the history section. I'm not trying to piss you off but all of the changes that I have made are listed on MMAJUNKIE. Check for yourself if you must. I am not well versed in wikipedia, so I won't even attempt to list it as a reference (especially since you will probably revert it!) http://mmajunkie.com/event/649/strikeforce-carano-vs-cyborg.mma

Wikipedia has a no rumor policy. Rumors don't belong in to Wikipedia. You shouldn't include rumored bouts, atleast without no sources! You should also take in to account the sources credibility. In this case strikeforce.com is usually credible, but the site might not always be up to date and there is a possibility that a bout is announced from a credible source, but the site is not updated. Site like mmajunkie.com can be a credible when it's made clear in the article that the bout comes from a credible source. Like this one [1] or like this [2]. On the other hand if the article says that the bout is rumored or in negotiations or if it does not mention sources at all, then it can not be used as a source for Wikipedia. I know sometimes it's a bit difficult to judge if a source is credible, but you should consider all these things.

Also always include the source you used a reference when you edit Wikipedia, so that others can check if they too think the source is credible.

PS. I am not an Wikipedia expert and this only my take on things. Please correct me if you think I am wrong. --Tuoppi gm (talk) 12:26, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

It appears that the Showtime source doesn't have Overeem anymore, so he is off the card again. I added him to the notes section trying to resolve this for now. --Tuoppi gm (talk) 11:19, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

I did change Alistair Overeem to the Rumored Participants because I did not find him on that showtime link.So he might be there,he might not.He might still be recovering from the injury he had.Who knows,this just might be something we could putting him on for the next couple of Strikeforce events.

Diaz vs Riggs

It's only rumoured to be a title fight. Just look at the reference, there is question mark and it says in the article that the fight is not finalized. --Tuoppi gm (talk) 22:43, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

It's official now --Tuoppi gm (talk) 08:27, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

4 championship fights,DAMN!

Interim Champion

A continued discussion from Talk:UFC_100. For the championship bouts, I have labelled current champions with a (c) and an (ic) for the interim champion. If there is a better way to add transparency to the page, let us discuss it. (Justinsane15 (talk) 01:31, 13 July 2009 (UTC))

First MMA fight where the women are the main event?

I suppose it's only meaningless trivia, but...I'm not sexist nor am I a hardcore MMA fan, but isn't this a little unprecedented...where two women are the main event for an MMA card? 65.43.96.3 (talk) 13:19, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Which fightcard should take precedence?

Strikefoce or Showtime?

I believe that the promoter's website/official card should always be considered the most reliable source for bouts and bout order unless there is a valid and reliable source which has newer information (things like fighter injuries and replacements). Thoughts? --Drr-darkomen (talk) 21:28, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

The only difference I see is that Showtime has Kyle/Werdum as a main card match as opposed to Hieron/Taylor on the Strikeforce site. Is this difference significant? (I just looked at the article history and I see that it apparently is. *sigh*)

Could there be a compromise of tentatively listing both in the main card section with a notation of which site claims it? --TreyGeek (talk) 23:46, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Unless I'm blind or missing something completely, the Showtime card isn't even a full card. It lists only four fights. I would hardly call a page which ignores the majority of the event as reliable as the one put forward by the promotion itself. The point isn't really the fight order at all. This is about using a definitive source. Both the showtime and strikeforce cards can change a hundred times between now and the event, that doesn't mean one is correct and one is incorrect. What it means is we should try to pick one and stick to it, for this and future Strikeforce events. This is bound to come up again in the future with Strikeforce and Showtime because of the nature of their business relationship. Which one should be considered more reliable? --Drr-darkomen (talk) 23:56, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

If there is a desire to use one source exclusively for the fight card, any card presented directly from Strikeforce would seem to be the obvious choice, IMO. --TreyGeek (talk) 00:00, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Unless the MMA Project wants to change it, I believe that the precedent is to use the offical site (for example see UFC 102, WEC 43). Although I have heard that Strikeforce was petitioning Werdum/Kyle to be added to the main card and having a five card fight.(Justinsane15 (talk) 00:08, 14 August 2009 (UTC))

I think I have read somewhere before that Wikipedia works through consensus, not precedent.  :-) But yes, I think in this case the precedent is the correct choice. --Drr-darkomen (talk) 00:11, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

The Showtime site is updated more ofter than the Strikeforce site as I check both multiple times each day. And the reason that Showtime only lists four fights is because that is the main card and they are they only fights that will be broadcast, therefore the only ones relevant to them. A little exploration would show that they have never listed undercard fights. The Showtime website has also never been wrong as they are the ones that dictate, not the fights, but the fight order. In my humble opinion the main card should be listed as according to Showtime and the prelims as according to Strikeforce.--69.215.131.102 (talk) 00:20, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

This would work except those two sources are in disagreement about two bouts. Either we can use one (Strikeforce) and have a full card laid out, or the other (Showtime) and only know the main card and just have all of the preliminary in an "unknown" status, or if we use both then at this time you would have to list both the Werdum and Hieron figths in an Unknown status while the rest are populated from the two sources. It just seems to me that using a single source for the entire card (when available of course) is the more sane choice. As far as which is updated more, the Strikeforce card will update even if it might lag behind Showtime at times. IMHO. --Drr-darkomen (talk) 00:26, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

I guess I don't understand why we can use Showtime as the offical source for the main card and Strikeforce as the offical source for the prelims. I love Strikeforce, but their website isn't top notch when it comes to matters like this if you even look closely they misspelled the name of one of their prelim fighters. They list him as Zuc Bucia when his name is in fact Zak Bucia, I'm just saying. How about if the fight is Werdum vs. Kyle we use Showtime as the main card source and if it is Hieron vs. Taylor we use Strikeforce as the only source and forget about Showtime? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.215.131.102 (talk) 00:35, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

I appreciate your spirit, but I don't thinking wagering for sources is the way to go. :) And I don't disagree about Strikeforce's website. It isn't up to Zuffa par for sure. But it is straight from the horse's mouth per-say. --Drr-darkomen (talk) 00:48, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

As is Showtime ;)! I thought that sounded like a reasonable solution, but I guess not.69.215.131.102 (talk) 00:50, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

My first choice would be to use Strikeforce's card as the definitive card. My second choice would be to take the approach that when Strikeforce and Showtime differ to place any bouts that are in disagreement back in to the "Other announced matchups" section until such time as Strikeforce and Showtime agree or the event has taken place, whichever comes first. --Drr-darkomen (talk) 00:56, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

I believe Wikipedia works on precedent, until there us a consensus to change it, as we are debating now. I support putting it in "Other announced matchups" as long as we can put some kind of note that would make it clear to everyone of the situation (two credible sources contradicting each other, with no recent press releases on the matter).(Justinsane15 (talk) 02:37, 14 August 2009 (UTC))

I think most of us are well aware that all the notes in the world won't stop edit warring from taking place under these circumstances. --Drr-darkomen (talk) 03:03, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

If only more people were logical and resonable lol Either way the card is less than 48 hours away and we should soon have a definitive answer apart from the discussion. (Justinsane15 (talk) 04:09, 14 August 2009 (UTC))

As I mentioned above, this will likely come up again, specifically with Strikeforce since Coker and Showtime have to debate over creative control. --Drr-darkomen (talk) 04:26, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

I like the Strikeforce site better because it is the fight site and Strikeforce does put fights on the main page as a news story before they put it on the fight card.I have seen that. --Forrestdfuller (talk) 23:11, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

I think through all of this we clearly found out that Showtime is the site to trust when it comes to the main card.69.217.174.86 (talk) 20:04, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm really not sure where you came to that conclusion from. If anything we need to use the compromise method mentioned above. --Drr-darkomen (talk) 22:32, 15 August 2009 (UTC)