Talk:Stuyvesant High School/Archive 2

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This page contains archived material from Talk:Stuyvesant High School. It was archived on 2007-02-16, and includes all conversations existing on that page as of 2007-01-01 excepting those with a post after that date.

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Intellectual merit

The phrase getting in solely on "intellectual merit" is highly elitist. Although I went to Stuy, I knew very many individuals of intellecutal merit who did not pass this silly standardized test. Tests only measure one form of knowledge (often an useless one). - Peter Wye

Peter - I'm not sure if it has been changed, but I think the intent is not to degrade other forms of intellectual merit, but to emphasize that *ONLY* intellectual merit, (as measured by an admittedly imperfect test) is taken into account, rather than legacy, income, religion, or anything else. The Stuy system is a bit harsh and very arbitrary, but it's thoroughly proletarian. While lower-income students are put at a bit of a disadvantage through test prep and inadequate middle and elementary schooling, ANYONE who does well on the test is admitted. Period.

Maybe a better phrase than "intellectual merit" would be "academic merit" or "academic accomplishment" or somesuch. - Noah Van Gilder, Stuy '02

I think academic merit or accomplishment is still not quite the right phrase. Academic merit or accomplishment would seem to suggest that grades and/or academic awards are taken into consideration for admission. The SSHSAT, according to Bronx Science, tests "skills consist of the ability to comprehend English prose, the ability to think through a verbal problem in order to reach a reasoned conclusion based on the given information, and problem-solving skills in mathematics" [1]. That sounds a lot like "fundamental skills", so perhaps admissions is based on the student's "fundamental skills"? "Soundness of academic foundation"? Hmm... --BenjaminTsai ^Talk 11:57, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

er... why not just say that admission is based "solely on the results of a standardized test, the SHSAT" etc, thus being completely objective? The article can perhaps later discuss the test in more detail, as I believe it does, or mention explicitly that factors such as race, wealth, legacy etc are not considered. This seems like the only accurate way to go. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.247.175.188 (talk • contribs) 03:48, 16 March 2006

[User:194.60.106.5|194.60.106.5]] 10:18, 2 November 2006 (UTC) You guys are so lucky in NYC. I wish I had the opportunity to study with a whole class of students with the similar interest and abilities, so that lesson time is not held up with dealing with students with absolutely no interest in the subject of study. There is nothing wrong with 'elitists' or 'eliticism' as long as the 'elite' are conscious of their responsibilities to society and to other people. I don't know what a 'non-elitist' is. Isn't a top hair-dresser or top brick-layer or top chef the 'elite' of his or her trade or profession, even though these are not considered 'elite' subjects?

faculty scholarship

re: the line 'John Avallone (physics teacher) is the holder of US Patent 5919182', one of the new bio teachers this year teachers holds two patents, forgot her name, it was in the first Spectator issue this year; possibly worthy of note. 24.29.130.37 01:36, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

unworthy.. holding a patent is very easy. 24.239.149.9 15:24, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Why is the faculty scholarship, with the exception of McCourt dominately physics and chemistry? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jnguy (talk • contribs) 02:50, 4 January 2006

Because that's what the editors know of? Seriously, if you've got other items to add, go ahead and do it. RossPatterson 22:23, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

I honestly don't think John Avallone's patent bears any relevance. A lot of design engineers have many patents issued to themselves and their company. Just saying...--Alphachimp 20:29, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

I removed the note of his patent. Nobody had made any comments, so I assume the change is OK. Remember, a patent is not just awarded to the design engineer, it is also awarded to his company. --Alphachimp ^talk 05:52, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

I don't object to the removal, but I don't understand why your emphasis on "to his company" matters. The fact that someone chooses to assign their patents to their employer (almost universal in business and universities, and generally unheard of in primary or secondary education) seems irrelevant to this issue. So, care to explain your point? RossPatterson 12:08, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Of course. Patents are assigned, often by contractual agreement, to the company sponsoring the research. I'm not saying that his idea was any less novel...I'm just deflecting a little of the "ooh/ahh" John Avallone has a patent business. Hence, although Avallone is credited as the inventor, he can't just go out and market the idea...while his company can. That's all I'm saying. --Alphachimp ^talk 14:51, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

New Articles

There is a new article in the New York Magazine in regards to sexuality at Stuyvesant.

132.239.51.158 20:53, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

indeed there was. i have no particular objection to your mentioning it if you feel like it. however, some response to the article from Stuy should be included, as the article is almost universally acknowledged to be exaggerated in many details. Niffweed17 02:19, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

What is the Stuy response to the Cuddle Puddle article, Niff? the.crazy.russian (T) (C) (E) 00:38, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

The overall response was that it was putting the group "out of proportion" (the "cuddle puddle" is less than 1% of the entire student body), the article distorted some facts to make them seem more "shocking," and that the reporter was let into the school against school policy.--Zxcvbnm 00:40, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Merge From Stuyvesant High School student body

• Object Stuyvesant High School student body was split out of this article because Stuyvesant High School had gotten too large. This article is still over the 30KB advisory limit, if we merge Stuyvesant High School student body back in this article will be far too large. RossPatterson 03:41, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I tend to agree, simply because I don't see any real reason that the page needs to be merged. It functions perfectly well as an appendage as it is. Niffweed17, Destroyer of Chickens 21:24, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Stuy Userbox

Greetings all,
Consider adding the Stuy userbox, {{User Stuy}}.
Regards, - the.crazy.russian (T) (C) (E) 19:23, 26 March 2006 (UTC) (Class of 99)

There's also another, more formal one: {{User:BlastOButter42/Userboxes/User Stuyvesant HS student}} -- BlastOButter42 ^See Hear _Speak 05:12, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

McCourt's Teacher Man

I added information about Teacher Man into the Faculty Scholarship section. But since Stuyvesant is a significant topic in the book itself, this information probably makes more sense in the Pop Culture section. See alum John Kwok's review over at Amazon for some more of the Stuy stuff in the book. Simon12 20:11, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

September 11th

Probably beating a dead horse, but I feel it's unnecessary to mention 9/11 in the intro. There's already a full section on it later on in the article, and the intro to that section is nearly identical to the paragraph in the article's intro. --Daniel Ferrantino '04 19:30, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Removed for discussion --Ferrantino 19:47, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, it's a dead horse, but it's worth mentioning anyway. The intro needed beefing up when this was being considered as a Featured Article Candidate, and I decided that was a decent attention-getter. If folks feel it's too similar to the 9/11 section further down, I'd suggest adding some factual material to that section rather than removing it from the intro. The article was criticized for having a "memorial" section there, but I couldn't make myself thin it down. RossPatterson 20:45, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

I do agree that the intro needs beefing up, but in my opinion (as one of those in attendance on 9/11) keeping that paragraph in the intro makes the entire article seem more of a memorial. I wouldn't change the 9/11 section from how it currently is, though. Any more than what's currently written would probably just be unnecesary. Surely there's other information that's intro-worthy, Stuy being one of the most highly-regarded public schools in the country... Dferrantino 23:34, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

The current FAC campaign for this article produced a complaint almost immediately that the lede should be three or four paragraphs for an article this size. If someone doesn't step up soon and write one or two, I'm going to do it again. I'll use my best judgement based on the content of the article, but I must admit that I did that last time too. RossPatterson 23:13, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Stuyvesant Standard

70.107.208.16 removed The Stuyvesant Standard from the external links section today. I have just restored it, since is clearly a publication by and for the Stuyvesant community, but I have also just removed it from the infobox. The Standard's website describes the it and The Spectator this way:

The Standard understands that it and The Spectator sometimes cover the same news. Nevertheless, this does not mean there should be conflict. Each paper has its own individual aim. The Spectator concentrates on Stuyvesant High School, while The Standard covers school events as well, but mainly focuses on out-of-school events and servicing the local community.

So the Spec is the school paper, and the Standard is a paper for the school's community. This isn't the first time Stuyvesant has had such a combination (e.g. The VOICE in the 1970s and 1980s), and it probably won't be the last. RossPatterson 02:43, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure if Stuy actually officially supports the Standard, but it's definitely worth mention here. If it can't be called the official school paper, it can certainly be called one of the more significant club/pubs in the building. It is, however, entirely true that the Standard lacks the same history as the Spectator, and that the two papers are almost clones in terms of content. Niffweed17, Destroyer of Chickens 02:36, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree, the Standard should be mentioned more than just in passing. I don't have anything to offer, but there's got to be someone out there who can add some text to the Clubs & Pubs section. RossPatterson 03:21, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

I disagree with the above poster who mentions "the two papers are almost clones in terms of content." As a currrent editor of The Spectator, I admit my bias, but must protest. The Standard is agreed upon by the student body to be of inferior quality to The Spectator. The Spectator covers in-school news thoroughly and with journalistic principles. The Standard, instead, mostly covers out of school news, which amounts to them paraphrassing NYTimes articles and reprinting photos (which is illegal by the way). What little school news they have is substandard (pun not intended) and often written by someone with a conflict of interest. ex. The article about honor society elections was written by a candidate who failed to win. Any mention more than passing, is far too much. michaellipkin 01:04, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree with you that the Spectator is of far superior quality to the Standard. I haven't read the Standard since freshman year. However, from what I have seen of the Standard, it contains similar content to the Spectator. This was essentially my point. It is entirely reasonable to include all of the criticisms you have just mentioned with regards to the Standard into the article (as not a single student not directly involved with the Standard would ever dispute them), but it also true that the Standard is omnipresent and apparently a reasonable number of students read it, so it deserves more than passing mention. Niffweed17, Destroyer of Chickens 21:33, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

The Standard is not agreed upon to be of "Inferior" quality to the Spectator, but I agree that it is when dealing with school news. However it also includes out-of-school news which the Spectator doesn't, being the original school newspaper. The out of school news is not "paraphrasing NY Times articles," and most of the time it comes from many sources. --Zxcvbnm 21:41, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

My mistake then. They just steal it from more than one source. That clearly makes it better. michaellipkin 07:34, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

So writing an article based on sources is "stealing it?" Then the daily papers in New York "steal" articles from the Associated Press?--Zxcvbnm 01:44, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Actually it is. The difference between the Standard and the daily papers is that the NY Post PAYS for the AP articles. I may be mistaken but I'm pretty sure the Standard does not pay for its articles that they use or the photos they publish. That IS theft. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.237.32.87 (talk • contribs)

The problem with your assertion is that the Standard does not steal articles. How are the writers supposed to get info for the out-of-school articles if the article is about, say, another country? Go there? Using a variety of references is not "stealing." That's like saying that you stole your essay because you got the information for it from different sites on the internet and didn't pay the sources for their information. What's the big deal about putting a few pictures in a paper with source info? Is that not "fair use?"--Zxcvbnm 23:12, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

I understand that there's bad blood between the Standard and the Spectator these days, but can we please not let it spill over into this space? Thanks. RossPatterson 03:10, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

It seems like "michael" is trying to put the Standard down.....it's against Wikipedia policy to put insults in the Talk pages--Zxcvbnm 03:14, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

I don't mean to be attacking the Standard, and I apologize if I came off that way. But I would have to agree with you, many of the New York Daily newspapers do not write their own articles, they just reiterate whatever is heard over the AP wire. And as a matter of fact, so does the Standard. This is directly from the Sports editor's mouth. So while I cannot speak for other departments directly, I think it is safe to assume that the same holds true for other departments. So saying that the Standard publishes "original" content is just plain untrue.\ michaellipkin 12:39, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

I know as a matter of fact that other departments do not "steal" articles, so even if the sports department does, that doesn't mean the entire paper is "stolen." It's against the paper's rules to plaguerize and that editor could get kicked off.--Zxcvbnm 00:14, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

I am the sports editor, and I have never talked to you, nor did I know who you were until I was shown this article. Before you put words in my mouth, it would be nice if you could talk to me.- Eric Mayo, 5/29/06

OK, please stop bickering. When the Standard was introduced, around my Junior year, I believe, it was marketed and regarded as less of a "school" paper and more of a "general news" paper, for the students who wanted experience with more than just school events. To be honest, from a non-biased perspective, both papers were horridly written, but that's neither here nor there. Both of you will agree that the Spectator is much more widely read around the school, and is generally regarded as "the school paper". Both papers, however, deserve to be mentioned, as the Standard is still a major paper in Stuy. michael, stop bashing the Standard and offer something constructive, Zxcvbnm, stop taking the flamebait, lest it continue infinitely. Ferrantino 20:52, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

ONE MORE TIME, PEOPLE! - One or another person's opinion of the quality of the Standard is not an issue for this article. Neither is the current spat between it and the Spectator. PLEASE STOP! Thank you. RossPatterson 02:06, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry but officially speaking only one paper is allowed to use the Stuyvesant logo/insignia - it is the Spectator. The Spectator is the school's official newspaper. Mboyce 05:05, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Good Article Collaboration

Come vote for stuy here: Wikipedia:Good_Article_Collaboration_of_the_week - CrazyRussian talk/contribs/email 21:14, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

POV tag

I'd like to see more criticism about the school; I'm familiar with magnet schools, and I know that there are lots of issues surrounding them. Issues such as those presented in Stuyvesant_High_School_student_body, expanded and revised, would work well here. (^'-')^ Covington 04:17, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

I'd be happy to merge Stuyvesant_High_School_student_body into this article (even though I opposed it the last time the question arose). It started here (compare it to the Stuyvesant_High_School#Student body section), but was split out a year or so ago when the article was criticized for being overly long. I've since read that the "32KB limit" is archaic (see WP:SIZE) and often ignored (see Special:Longpages - the list is, um, long). Still, we did try to follow the spirit of the law - you'll find some of the Lindsay/ACORN material in the Stuyvesant_High_School#Enrollment section of the article. RossPatterson 22:44, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

I support the merge, it will add more balance to the article, and a branch-out is not needed.

Seems a good idea, let's get that page cleaned up before we merge it into this one, though. Some of the info is old, and some more of it seems too POV, figure it'd be easier if we clean it up there before merging it, than doing it all at once. Ferrantino 20:38, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

So has this merge already occured? Homestarmy 14:04, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Any references out there besides the internet?

Is there anything like maybe a book or some general knowladge sort of pamphlet thing on this school out there we could reference, because as I read this article, there's a whole lot of unsourced statements that I sort of thought would mean that there are general knowladge books at the bottom, but I didn't see anything. Homestarmy 21:11, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Check out The Campaign for Stuyvesant's web site (in the External links section). It has a lot of historical info, and I believe it is well researched. If you abosolutely must have a book, the 100 year history is now on sale there, and I'm sure Neal would take your money :-) RossPatterson 23:06, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Criticism of the Standard

I've omitted this paragraph from the section:

The Standard has been criticized for not upholding journalistic standards. Critics cite the running articles based off professional articles without license or citation and running copyrighted photos without permission, although the origin of the photos are sometimes shown. In cases where an article or photo comes from the Associated Press, this is a direct violation of their usage rules. The AP explicitly prohibits unauthorized usage of their articles here. [1] The photo branch of the Associated Press also explicitly prohibits publications from using their photos without paying for their use. [2]

What "critics" cite the articles being based off other articles without citation? Citation is supposed to be used. This would be known as weasel words unless you can find a source. Who says people use pictures or articles from the associated press? This is unreferenced as well. This needs references before it can be included.--Zxcvbnm 23:16, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

http://www.stuystandard.org/pdf/5.16.pdf There are two photos from the AP, a Newsday photo, and an uncited photo on the first four pages.

http://www.stuystandard.org/pdf/5.15.pdf About ten photos not taken by the Standard, many from professional sports photographers and Reuters.

http://www.stuystandard.org/pdf/5.13.pdf There is 1 AP photo, 1 Corbis, and one professional bu uncited photo on the first fourpages.

http://www.stuystandard.org/pdf/5.12.pdf On the first four pages, 1 CNN photo, 1 Reuters photo, 1 BBC photo, 1 Getty photo.

http://www.stuystandard.org/pdf/5.11.pdf On the first four pages, 1 Reuters photo, 1 AP photo, and 1 photo from a French agency.

http://www.stuystandard.org/pdf/5.10.pdf On the first four pages, 3 AP photos, 2 Reuters photos.

It is hard to prove the usage of AP articles, but I just went back to their archive and looked at the first four pages from the last 6 issues (they didn't put up issue 14) and each one was had tons of professional photographs that the Standard did not license.

Wanna put it back? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Orstenwald (talk • contribs) 13:20, 29 May 2006

Now that's what I'm talking about! There's still one problem though, "critics cite" would be considered weasel words, just like saying "many people think" would be purposely vague and original research.--Zxcvbnm 18:47, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, guys, but that's not enough. This is now an issue of original research, which is not permitted on WikiPedia per WP:OR. Until and unless somebody finds existing published critcism by a third party, this issue has to stay out of the article. I'm reverting Orstenwald's re-insertion (without prejudice) until that time. RossPatterson 19:00, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

McCourt

He did not go to Stuy, did he? He just taught there? Right now the article has him as an "alumnus". Is this right? - CrazyRussian talk/contribs/email 13:40, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Fixed Simon12 15:52, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Racial stats

The statistics about the ethnic makeup of the school are repeated in two consecutive sections. Probably would be better to remove one of them eh? Sheep81 04:38, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, probably. Redundancy is better off when it doesn't exist. Aaрон Кинни (t) 18:01, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

• judging by the picture in 2005, 99.9% asian kids. LOL. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.121.253.21 (talk • contribs) 02:57, 2 November 2006

Wikipedia:Today's featured article/requests

Perhaps this would be an appropriate "Today's featured article" for September 11. I'll just leaving this to the discretion of the editors of this article if they feel that's a good idea.--Pharos 00:48, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't really matter, though the school was probably one of if not the most affected high school by September 11 so it would be appropriate.--Zxcvbnm 01:15, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

It would be a very good "TFA", although the date could be whenever the slot isn't filled. I'm sure by this September Wikipedia will have very many more good qualifying articles for that distinction. Aaрон Кинни (t) 18:03, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

I think its very appropriate for TFA, but I don't see why it needs to be on September 11. Stuy deserves to be TFA in its own right. Niffweed17, Destroyer of Chickens 06:02, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

If the article is indeed submitted for TFA, the following section can be used as the intro:

Stuyvesant High School is a public high school in New York City that specializes in math and science. It is one of several specialized schools run by the New York City Department of Education. The school opened in 1904 on Manhattan's East Side, and for 65 years admitted boys only. Since 1969, Stuyvesant has been a coeducational environment, and after moving to its Battery Park City building the facilities for girls were put on a par with those for boys.

Admission to Stuyvesant is by competitive examination and is open to all residents of New York City with no tuition fee. The school is noted for its famous alumni, its academics, and the large number of graduates attending prestigious universities. There has been a friendly rivalry of long standing between Stuyvesant and the Bronx High School of Science over students' awards from the Intel Science Talent Search, with both schools claiming dominance at various times.

Classes were in session at Stuyvesant when a terrorist attack destroyed the nearby World Trade Center towers, and the school building served as a command post for several weeks afterwards. The school was temporarily relocated and shared facilities with Brooklyn Technical High School until its own building could be returned to its intended use. (More...)

A different image might be a boon... Niffweed17, Destroyer of Chickens 06:19, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Be this whatever it be, I think this is good enough to be a TFA. I'd leave this here but I'm going on vacation in a couple days and will not have the chance to observe it any further. So, I'm submitting it and requesting September 11 if possible. 162.83.249.246 07:48, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Gah, this was me. The system logs me out from time to time. Niffweed17, Destroyer of Chickens 18:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Hey Niff! You got your wish - this article goes up on the main page on 2006-11-02! RossPatterson 03:41, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

NOTE TO ALL: Let's try to keep a close watch on the article this week, as main-page references sometimes provoke waves of vandalism. RossPatterson 03:41, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Clique hang-outs

This section is entirely unreferenced and does not seem encyclopedic - why does a reader need to know which ethnic group hangs out by which table? I'm tempted to pull it out (and definitely will if it goes unreferenced) unless somebody can explain why this is so important that such a large section needs to be devoted to it. TheGrappler 19:44, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

I was especially surprised to find out that Asian sophmores are assigned lockers on the sixth floor! The fact is, the whole section is WP:OR and should go even if someone thinks its important. Simon12 20:02, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

It's nuked. TheGrappler 13:41, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

i didn't create that section, but i did improve it extensively. it probably is original research, as i can't really cite anything because to my knowledge no real research has been done on the topic. nonetheless, most of the information that was there was accurate. Niffweed17, Destroyer of Chickens 17:14, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

There are "bars" on the second and sixth floor, with the seniors that hang out on the second floor bar and the asian sophomores on the sixth. Asian sophomores are not assigned lockers on the sixth floor; instead, SOPHOMORES are assigned lockers on the sixth. It just so happens that the sixth floor bar is on the same floor, and thus, asian sophomores take the sixth floor lockers. There are a series of lockers behind the sophomore bar, and these lockers belong to juniors. However, because the bar is the traditional hang-out place for asian sophomores, asian sophomores claim the lockers as well. There has been a recent request by the faculty for the sophomores to relinquish these lockers.

I haven't seen the original text about the lockers, but I'm sure the reason why it was first put there is because among attendees and alumni, these hangouts are a microcosm of how a place with some diversity can create self-segregation. It is similar to the introduction-of-the-cafeteria scene in the movie Mean Girls, where each table is occupied by a different clique. Due to the vertical nature of Stuyvesant (10 floors), it's pretty easy for Stuyvies to identify and observe these racial clique locations within the school. Some notes from my memory: 1) Lockers are assigned by homeroom and grade level, not race or affiliation or anything else. So grade level is what generally dictates the location. 2) Seniors, of all races, are often seen at the second floor bar and lockers. 3) South Asians and Middle Eastern students are often seen on the fourth floor overlooking the atrium. 4) Blacks and Hispanics are often see on the fifth floor. 5) According to the previous post, sophomore Asians are often see on the sixth floor. 6) Freshmen on the seventh floor? (because biology classes are held there...) 7) Third floor is mostly juniors? 8) With the exception of the sixth floor, I thought that most places were either dominated by a grade level or a race, but not an intersection, like Asian seniors. This is because generally half of any grade is white and the other half is Asian. Unless a certain location has a noticeable lack of white students (like the sixth floor bar), it is not unremarkable that there are a lot of Asians in one area. This should apply to the senior bar - I think everyone is there, Asians, whites, and the rest, but people tend to register it as "senior Asians" because there a lot of Asians there. They are forgetting that that's not important in a school that is half Asian, and should be important only if there are mostly only Asians.

Now, as for whether this should warrant an encyclopedia article - I think a new article should be created that links from perhaps the Demographics section of the main page. Then, let all the Wikipedians who happen to be Stuyvies or alumni have at it. No one else will care anyway, and they'll take care of it - because it is a fun topic for them. Kenumay 13:23, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Spoken Version

Hey guys, I recorded a spoken version of this article with the assumption that I would know how to pronounce all of the names. How wrong I was! If anyone can pinpoint anything I pronounced wrongly, I would really appreciate it. Sedola 12:40, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Terms somewhat botched include Bruce Winokur, sociobiology and Bangladesh. 162.84.149.222 21:07, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

that was me. somehow i got logged out Niffweed17, Destroyer of Chickens 22:44, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

A few comments, but nothing major:

• 01:52 - "... United Nations Security General ..." - Should be "Secretary General".
• 03:26 - "... making the school's ... " - Should be "marking".
• 03:57 - "According to Abraham Baumel ..." - Should be pronounced bow-MEL, not BAUM-el.
• 05:06 - "(see school facilities)" - I don't know the protocol, but is it normal to read out these internal wikilinks?
• 05:45-06:33 - "[asbestos info]" - Man, that reads really clumsy out loud. In hindsight, it isn't much better on screen.
• 08:28 - "Bruce Winker" - Should be pronounced WINE-oh-kur, not WINK-er, as noted above.
• 09:01 "In 2003, Stuyvesant celebrated the 100th anniversary of its 1904 founding" - Boy, that sounds stupid. Darned math kids can't add! The text used to read "Starting in 2003, ...". I've fixed it.
• 09:27 - "... United Nations Security General ..." - Should be "Secretary General". At least you're consistent :-)
• 09:48-11:00 - "The test was formerly ... fewer students are admitted this way." - Several small errors (plus this paragraph is clumsy when read out loud too):
  • 09:57 - "These original three schools ..." - Should be "those", but it sounds OK.
  • 10:09 - "... all of New York's specialized schools ..." - Should be "specialized high schools", but it too sounds OK.
  • 10:25 - "... higher than needed for ..." - Should be "than that needed", but again, OK.
• 14:29 "Dr. A. Edward Stefanacci" - Stef would have been very happy to hear his name pronounced correctly the first time! Sebastian (his invisible 1cat) would have too :-)
• 31:12 "Bangladesh" - Sounded fine to me (see above).
• 32:26 "Rudy Chu" - Should be "Crew"
• 32:59 "Micah C. Lasher" - I remember it being pronounced MIK-ah, not MIKE-ah
• 34:12 "claiming the name was racist" - The article says "claiming the name connoted racism". No harm, though.
• 36:05 "Ronald Hoffman" - His name is "Roald", it's not a typo :-)
• 38:05 "Jonathan Lethem" - I believe it's pronounced LAY-thum, not LE-thum.

I've just made several small changes to the article based on listening to the recording, all reflected somehow or another in the comments above. Thanks for doing this! RossPatterson 03:26, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

wow, you actually listened to the whole thing. you have an incredible amount of patience. Niffweed17, Destroyer of Chickens 18:29, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Thank you so much! I'm actually working on some corrections right now. I can't believe I said "Security General"! Hopefully I'll have a revised version up in a few days. Sedola 19:31, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Wait, just checking, does this mean that I actually pronounced "Stefanacci" right? I was so worried about that one :-P Sedola 22:14, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

And I'm done! The new file has been uploaded. It was recorded in a different place, and at a different time of day, so I hope the edits I made aren't that noticable. Thank you so much for your help! Sedola 22:58, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Cinnamoroll

Cute, but I edited the entire section out. Sanrio's not advertising Stuy, it's the other way around. It sounds like an inside joke that's not particularly notable or relevant. Mariana 11:31, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Beastie Boys

As cool as it would be if one of the Beastie Boys had attended Stuyvesant, it just ain't so. You can find lots of second- and third-hand reports on the web that say that one or more of them did and that none of them did, but I think that as a founder of the band, Mike D should get he last word:[2]

We all went to different schools — Kate [Schellenbach, original Beastie Boys drummer, later formed Luscious Jackson] was going to Stuyvesant, I was going to St. Ann's in Brooklyn Heights, Adam Yauch was going to Friends [Seminary] at that point. John Berry, who was our first guitar player — I knew him from a school called Walden on the Upper West Side.

RossPatterson 01:02, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Disabled comment

Perhaps I'm out of line, but this line had no citation and it struck me as quite unencyclopedic: "Some teachers remark on the unusual juxtaposition of the gifted with the disabled." It seems fairly obvious to me that it should be deleted, but since this was a featured article, I wanted to see what everyone else thought. Thanks. Isquitenice 16:02, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

If someone can provide a link to a teacher quoted with saying that, then it deserves to be in the article. If it is just hearsay, then it definitely does not belong. Either way, it should not be included unless there is a credible reference. -- Karma Thief 22:58, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Vandal

Somebody vandalized this page as i opened it and read the first few sentences with obscene words..

pls change.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.194.96.93 (talk • contribs) 20:42, 1 November 2006

Just click reload. Its been fixed. Gdo01 00:43, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Now the infobox is gone....

Userbox?

Is there a userbox for current and past students of the school? Xiner 01:02, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Yup, see Stuy Userbox above. RossPatterson 01:41, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Protection?

Congrats on the FA status. Unfortunately other students in the city may not be as cool about it as I am. Should there be some preemptive protection of some kind on the page, or wait for a reason it to happen? Pacific Coast Highway ^{{Gobble Gobble! • Happy Thanksgiving! • WP:NYCS}} 02:08, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Articles on the Main Page cannot be either semi- or fully protected, and protection is not preemptive. -Fsotrain⁰⁹ 02:18, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, this article has survived vandalism in the past and it'll survive this time. I'm seriously falling in love withAntiVandalBot! RossPatterson 02:29, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

What?

I don't understand the significance of the quote in the line: " According to Abraham Baumel, Stuyvesant principal from 1983 to 1994, "... I can tell you with certainty that the cyclotron never worked at Stuyvesant any more than it did for Ernest Lawrence, and he was awarded a Nobel Prize for his invention of the cyclotron. The Russians never succeeded in getting one to work, either".". What is this supposed to mean? That the cyclotron DID work? Obviously it worked for E O Lawrence and "the Russians" soo.... what's his point --Deglr6328 09:28, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, that section seemed pretty random. --Fang Aili ^talk 14:49, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

it seems that the comment refers to the fact that the work of these particular students rivaled that of ernest lawrence in that similar results were obtained, reflecting to the high academic nature of the school. Niffweed17, Destroyer of Chickens 20:22, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

That doesn't come across at all. I'm going to remove it.--Deglr6328 00:30, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Definition

"Stuyvesant High School... specializes in mathematics and science". Seems a bit strange: isn't math a science? May be would be better to mention the branches of science it specializes in. --Brand спойт 10:45, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

the article does discuss the branches of science. however the distinction between math and science is sensible in this case because the curriculum treats math very differently from science and as its own separate entity, whether deservingly or not. Niffweed17, Destroyer of Chickens 20:20, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Featured Status

Congrats to all editors, it shocked me today to log in and see that today's featured article was a high school (albeit a notable one), after all the consternation I see whether they should even be allowed as articles or are just vanity and such. I hope a good deal of Stuy students helped edit this article, and made a foray into WP. Again, much congrats on a fine article Sherurcij ^{(Speaker for the Dead)} 13:58, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Do all front page articles get this amount of vandalism? What a waste of everone's time. I'll just say thanks to those who are keeping a close eye on the article and removing the junk as quickly as possible.Simon12 19:06, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

All main page features articles tend to get a lot of vandalism. Fortunetely, because they're so high profile it get's referred very fast. The 0.999... article probably has the record for most junk in the talk page ever for a main page featured article tho Nil Einne 09:45, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Pronunciation

How is the name pronounced? I'm envisioning it beginning something like "Stwee", but Dutch pronunciation is notoriously difficult.--Kchase T 21:53, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

The school's name is pronouced "STYE-va-sunt", consistent with the way Peter Stuyvesant's name is pronounced in NYC (there are a number of "Stuyvesant somethings" in NYC). The nickname is the then-obvious "Stye". You can hear both in the beginning of the spoken article at Media:En-Stuy_High_School.ogg. I'll grant that this isn't very Dutch-sounding, but it's correct. Now about that city in Texas that isn't pronouced "HOW-sten" ... :-) RossPatterson 23:37, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

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