Talk:Subject–verb–object word order

Russian in the example (table)

The example may be a bit confusing. While the default word order (without emphasis) in Russian is indeed SVO as shown in the table, the example is faulty. "She loves him" typically translates to SOV in Russian ("she him loves"), not SVO as shown in the table (SVO is possible but sounds artificial and is usually found in bad translations from English where the translator lazily copies the English word order without caring about how it actually would sound like in real life). That's because "him" is a clitic-like word and so it still tries to follow Wackernagel's law (a vestige of the old grammar). So, I think, the examples in the table should be changed to have personal names instead of pronouns like "him" because pronouns across languages often have special grammar rules unique to them (for instance, they are the only group of words in English which can have oblique case applied) 217.118.93.101 (talk) 21:34, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

Frankly, this is where wiki is bad. Russian language belongs to SVO, because most common use is SVO - not because other placements are possible. Unlike english language most of IE languages also change words, depending on their placement in sentence - basically placement is not important, but word changes - are. This is something, that english language lacks and it is rather hard to explain properly in english. Also "She loves him" is a very stupid example, because it is not trivial - it also have submeaning, that Subject can become Object: he can love her, too. To avoid misconception it would be advisable to use subject, where object can't do verb to subject. "Я читаю wiki". You can still use other arrangements, but it would not be considered normal answer to "что ты делаешь?", if word order would be different from SVO.

There are limits for everyone (talk) 07:19, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

Change Log

I moved this from Subject-verb-object to Subject Verb Object because that was the format the other five permutations were in, and it was silly to have this one have a title with different punctuation and capitalization. -Branddobbe 04:54, Jan 26, 2004 (UTC)

I removed the mention of Klingon and Yoda because it was totally unrelated to SVO. (In fact, the inclusion of the note assumed that SVO is 'normal' against Klingon's 'abnormal' order, when in fact SVO is only the second most common order, if we are to believe the article.) -Bathrobe

Which is the most common order? The SVO and SOV articles have SOV on top, while the others have SVO on top.

There were untitled sections at the top of this page, from contributions spanning at least three years . I've taken the liberty to title these. I also changed the resulting sort order to put change notifications at the top (this and the next two sections). Please feel free to remedy my edits! Robbiemuffin (talk) 11:45, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

proposed move

I propose moving all six word-order articles, changing the word 'subject' to 'agent'. There are two motivations for this: Not all languages have subjects (ergative languages, for example), and among those that do, not all order A the same way they order S (Russian, for example, which if I remember correctly has fixed transitive AVO order but fluid intransitive SV~VS order). kwami 21:49, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Okay, 5 days, no comments, here goes. kwami 11:08, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Are AVO, AOV, etc. common terms? It's all right to rename them if they are common (or becoming common) among linguists. By the way, according to SIL's glossary, predicator may be a preferred term to verb because the latter is a part of speech rather than a function in a sentence. Do linguists use the former? In fact, in my native language Japanese, both verbs and adjectives can be predicators. - TAKASUGI Shinji 10:30, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

SVO etc are most often seen, but AVO or AVP (P for 'patient') is becoming more widespread, especially when people are trying to be rigorous.

Yes, terms like 'predicator' (there are others) may be preferable in some situations, but they're not important here. Every language has verbs, especially in the highly transitive clauses this typology is based on.

By the way, I don't think I'd say adjectives can predicators in Japanese. I can think of only one word that behaves as an adjective, onazi, and it requires a copula as predicate. I'd consider words like aoi to be verbs. They certainly act like verbs. kwami 12:46, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't think it's fair to treat those Japanese words ending with -i as verbs just because they don't look like English adjectives. Adjectives are something between nouns and verbs, and in European languages they are more like nouns and in East Asian languages (at least in Japanese and Chinese) they are more like verbs. They in fact have several features in common: they are more commonly used as noun modifiers, they can be often converted to adverbs, and they inflect differently from both nouns and verbs. Onaji is considered an irregular word. - TAKASUGI Shinji 15:03, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Fair enough. It's hard to define something that won't keep still. kwami 23:29, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

You might be interested in the following book: Adjective Classes: A Cross-Linguistic Typology, edited by R.M.W. Dixon and Alexandra Y. Aikhenvald.

This pioneering work shows, among other things, that the grammatical properties of the adjective class may be similar to nouns or verbs or both or neither; that some languages have two kinds of adjectives, one hard to distinguish from nouns and the other from verbs; that the adjective class can sometimes be large and open, and in other cases small and closed.

Japanese has verb-like noun-modifiers such as ao-i (blue) and taka-i (high) and noun-like noun-modifiers such as yutaka-na (rich) and kirei-na (beautiful). The former is commonly called adjectives. Japanese does have stative verbs too, such as iru (to be necessary).

According to Katsumi Matsumoto, transition between noun-like adjectives and verb-like adjectives is found among Tibetan languages, whose location is between Western languages (Indo-European, Dravidian, Afro-Asiatic, Uralic, Altaic, etc.), which have noun-like adjectives, and Eastern languages (Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Ainu, Miao-Yao, Austro-Asiatic, Austronesian, New Guinean, Na-Dene, etc.), which have verb-like adjectives. - TAKASUGI Shinji 02:07, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, there is definitely an areal feature involved.

However, that's an extremely POV book. It was based on a roundtable discussion D&A convened for the purpose of establishing adjectives as a universal category in the world's languages. Everyone was to write an article showing how adjectives worked in the languages they worked on. The problem is that some of their languages clearly lacked an adjective category, and those articles were excluded from the book. That is, Dixon censored the data to bolster his hypothesis! Although there is some interesting data, the book can hardly be taken seriously. kwami 19:11, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the info. - TAKASUGI Shinji 23:16, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Sure.

I'm thinking I should have worded that differently. If challenged, I wouldn't say that Japanese either has or does not have a category 'adjective', just that it's unclear what 'adjective' means cross-linguistically. And I'm sure many of the articles in the book are very good. Several of them, however, were rewritten under pressure from Dixon, so that what some people said at the conference (things like 'it is not clear if the concept of adjective is applicable') and what they ended up publishing ('X are adjectives') were two very different things. kwami 01:25, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Why don't you use the term patient instead of object? I've seen both agent-object-verb and agent-patient-verb, and the latter seems more consistent. A subject and an object form a pair syntactically, and an agent and a patient form a pair semantically. - TAKASUGI Shinji 05:09, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

That would be fine. Go ahead and change it if you wish. It would also avoid the ambiguity of direct vs indirect objects. I only left it as is because 'object' is a more familiar term.

I wonder if it might not be a good idea to merge all these articles into a single article, maybe constituent order. This might forstall objections to the 'new' terms. What do you think? kwami 05:58, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm afraid the term constituent order is too broad. We would then discuss all the constituent orders, not only agent-patient-verb and agent-verb-patient but also time-manner-place vs. place-manner-time, genitive-noun vs. noun-genitive, adjective-noun vs. noun-adjective, and so on. That would be a great article if we include all of them, of course. - TAKASUGI Shinji 11:37, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Proposed move back to SOV

This article has been moved to Agent Verb Object from Subject Verb Object. I suggest undoing this move for the following reasons:

- It is not attested in the literature on word order (The terminology is attested in the literature on case, but that is another matter. Note that Comrie-style discussion of case (SAP) is more common than RMW Dixon-style (SAO))

Either SAO or SAP would be acceptable. kwami

- The reasons for this is that the agent can be moved around quite freely in the sentence by various morphosyntactuc means, while the subject cannot. Compare

1) the girl hits the ball

and

2) the ball is hit by the girl

The order is SOV in both sentences, but AVP in the first and PVA in the second.

Word-order typology looks at "basic" phrase order. Therefore passives are not usually considered. But in any case, in your examples the word orders are AVP and SV; a passive is intransitive by definition. kwami

- The original motivation that ergative languages have no subject is clearly wrong. Ergative languages are defined by the fact that their subjects are marked by the absolutive, in distinction to the object, which is marked by the ergative

No, there is no clarity about this at all. Erg langs are defined by their treating S and O similarly in opposition to A, not by what they do to "subjects". A large amount of the lit claim that the subject is the argument marked by the ergative rather than the absolutive, while others claim that there is no subject at all in such languages. Certainly there is no agreement as to what the subject should be. kwami

- I am aware of no language that has a fixed order of A, whereas there are tons that have a fixed order of S. In the original claim for the move, Russian was said to only allow AVO in transitive sentences. I am no expert in Russian, but as a good IE-language, it should have a passivization strategy to demote the agent to object. This would make the agent surface after the verb.

Jasyjatere 11:17, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

You can only have AVO in transitive sentences because you can only have A or O in transitive sentences. Not sure what your point is. And again, few langs have rigid word orders, but the lit still discusses langs based on their "basic" word order. (That's often problematic, of course.) kwami 18:57, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I think there at least should be uniformity, within the article and similar articles. I think this is the only article in the series using "agent" looking rather silly and distracting. 惑乱 分からん 08:34, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Not to mention that 'agent' has a very specific meaning with regard to thematic roles, and is thus potentially quite confusing. I think I'll move this back now. BovineBeast 18:17, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes, please move it back pronto. The AVO title satisfies only certain linguists. The most common term in basic linguistic literature is still SVO. Not to mention that the most common linkage here is SVO, not AVO.

Peter ^Isotalo 14:55, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Support. Let's move it back to SVO, the above reasons seem good enough. --Cameltrader 06:38, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

No objections so far, so I'm restoring it. --Cameltrader 15:33, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Moved, following the consensus apparent on this page. If anyone disagrees with this, please instigate a move request to enable a full discussion to clarify what the consensus position is. --Stemonitis 16:01, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Specific Languages

If Chinese (I know it is so for Mandarin at least) is cited on the talk as SVO, shouldn't it also be in the article?

English, German, Kiswahili and Chinese are examples of languages that follow this pattern.

German is mixed SVO / SOV, certainly not a typical SVO language. --Taw

ISTR that German main clauses are more precisely V2 ("verb second"), that is, Tv{SO}V, where T is a "topic", v is a single verb, S and O are any nouns left over, and V is any part of the verb phrase left over from v. --Damian Yerrick

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what about french? any french grammar buffs?

French is SVO.

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Is the paragraph on Hebrew really necessary? It starts out by saying that Hebrew isn't of this gorup, so it seems pointless to then go on and describe why not. Tev 21:44, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

All Bantu languages are SVO. And Swahili is one of them. So it's inclusion here is unnecessary. 102.1.150.48 (talk) 07:35, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Use in Poetry, etc

Is it worth mentioning that, in addition to being used for effect in fiction, such sequences are found in poetry? Vicki Rosenzweig

Yes. Could all these OSV / SVO / etc pages be merged to one general article? They seem to all cover common ground. (not sure what we'd call it though)-- Tarquin

I concur. Having a 'mother page' listing the possible permutations and giving some general information on this kind of linguistic typology is a good idea, I think. I propose Constituent order - that seems to me to be the general notion. However, I'm not a syntactician so I won't carry out the move. - Strangeloop (talk) 09:20, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I also agree. Perhaps Word order would be the right place -- it already exists and has this kind of content. In particular, duplicating the ranks of the various orders is a dead giveaway that something needs mergine, because over time they will diverge. I won't do it for the same reason. -- Dwheeler

This still might be a good idea. Constituent order is the normal cover term. kwami 23:29, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

A Yoda example, need we. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.77.77.98 (talk) 22:03, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

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Some of these languages, such as English, can also use an OSV structure in certain literary styles, such as poetry.

Can we get an example or reference for this? I can easily envision OVS but OSV is fairly abstract in English. Robbiemuffin (talk) 11:52, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

---

"I played a game of Go yesterday."

I found this confusing as 'Go' can be a verb. Couldn't it be 'football', 'chess' or something?

SOV vs SVO

The article and Subject Object Verb state that SOV is more popular than SVO. What's the source of this claim ? Taw 18:29, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Second most common???

The article says:

"This sequence is the second most common." But no source is given to support this assertion. Moreover, none of the articles for the other sequences claim to be the most common. Also, there's not a definition for what "most common" means. Does this mean that there are the most total languages (no matter how few speakers they might have) which use this sequence, or that there are the most total speakers of the languages in this group. I haven't done any sort of detailed population analysis, but I'm pretty sure that the SVO sequence is the most common by the latter definition. Since the languages which use this sequence include Chinese, the Maylay-Indonesian languages, several other Asian languages with a lot of speakers, English, the Romance languages, Russian (and presumably most of the other Slavic languages), and a number of others (including some major African languages), I'm pretty certain that this adds up to at the very least a plurality, if not an outright majority of the world's population!

So I'm going to change it to "the most common" unless someone can give a good reason as to why it's not. 172.160.184.114 07:02, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

It's as silly to call it the most common as it is to call it the second most common. We don't even know how many languages there are in the world, let alone exactly what percentage of languages are of which word order type. (Even the ones we do know a lot about can be controversial!) I've read in more than one place that SOV seems to have a slight edge over SVO, but the first relevant reference book at hand (David Crystal's Cambridge Encyclopedia of Language, second edition) takes a decidedly agnostic approach, saying only that "over 75% of the world's languages use SVO... or SOV", and not taking a stand on which of those two is the more popular. Barring a typological breakthrough, I think Crystal's is the only defensible position to take on the matter, and am editing accordingly. (And of course "most popular" means "number of languages using the order", not "number of speakers" - the fact that a couple of the SVO languages have, through accidents of history, gained large numbers of speakers tells us nothing useful about language.) 69.140.12.199 20:19, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

'Most common' is generally understood to mean 'greatest number of languages'.

Can't dig up a ref, but it's been estimated that, of languages which even have a basic constituent order, approx. 1/2 are AOV, 1/3 AVO, and 1/6 VAO. However, that doesn't seem to account for the large number of Austronesian languages which are basically OVA, perhaps because this O is (or at least was) routinely called the "subject" of the "passive voice". There are also languages, such as the Kru and Mande languages of West Africa, which are AXOV, where X is an auxiliary verb and V is a lexical verb. It's debatable whether these languages should be considered AVO, or AOV, or if they don't fit into either category. kwami 23:29, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Jae Jung Song' introductionary book Linguistic Typology: Morphology and syntax (2001, p.106)says:

"(...) Tomlin (1986) provides the following frequency hierarchy of the six clausal word orders:

(62) SOV = SVO > VSO > VOS = OVS > OSV"

But also(same book, p.24):

"Dryer (1989: 269-270) demonstrates that there s indeed a linguistic preference for SOV over SVO, and that the lack of a statistical difference between SOV and SVO in Tomlin's investigation is due to the distinction between linguistic preferences and actual frequencies of different linguistic types not being maintained. For example, in Tomlin's sample about 40 per cent of the SVO languages come from Niger-Congo, and there is also a large contigent of SVO languages fron Austronesian (Dryer 1989: 260, 270)"

Are you people discussing the same question here? Are you trying to find out which word order is the most frequently found in the world's languages, or which of the basic word orders is the linguistically preferred one? This may seem as one and the same thing, but isn't. Some language families are larger than others, not because of the languages themselves, but because of different historical, and linguistically -or at least typologically- irrelevant factors, such as migration, colonialization etc.

The linguistically preferred types are the ones that are preferred by human languages; that is, preferred by the largest number of languages that are unrelated, with the distribution of the types not being due to crosslinguistic contact. Linguistic univerals is about "what human languages (tend to) have in common because they are human languages", and not "what human languages (tend to) have in common because we all know English", so to say.

Two more things:

1: Why are you dragging the poetic word orders and the derived word orders (questions etc) into this article? Shouldn't it be about basic word order?

2: Of course this article can't list all SVO languages as examples. There may be plus/minus 7000 languages in the world, and the majority of them are SOV/SVO. ("Wow, my language is SVO too! Cool, I'll put it on the list of examples!")

I don't know how to edit articles, so I won't try to edit this article. Hope some of you other guys will, though. 129.240.183.108 14:47, 26 October 2007 (UTC) Elisabeth Holm

AOV in AVO article?

Why does this article even mention the AOV order? Then, it gives so many examples of languages the use the AOV order. As I was reading this article, I got confused and thought it meant AVO, since that is the title. Does anyone else feel that the mention and examples of AOV should be removed?--El aprendelenguas 22:14, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Hopefully that should clarify it. The examples are all AVO. kwami 23:29, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Russian

I'm no linguist, but would greatly appreciate if someone could clarify something for me. In Russian, while "Sam ate (the) oranges" is certainly proper, it can be said "Sam (the) oranges ate" - this emphasizes "who", or "Ate (the) oranges Sam" - this also emphasizes "who", or "(The) oranges Sam ate" - this emphasizes "what", or even "(The) oranges ate Sam" - this, again, emphasizes "what", and so on. It seems to me that, unlike in English, this structure (SVO) is very flexible in Russian. Are there other languages with such flexibility? With respect, Ko Soi IX 08:42, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Definitely, for instance Latin, Finnish, and Hungarian (see word order#Sentence word orders). I am no linguist either, but I believe all Slavic languages (Russian included) have the that flexibility as well. --Cameltrader 21:05, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. With respect, Ko Soi IX 02:01, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't know about Finnish, but neither does the article. First Finnish is listed as an SVO-ordered language in the beginning part, then listed as a Russian-like language where every word order is possible. Which one is false? 157.181.100.63 (talk) 00:58, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm quite sure that's true for all Slavic languages. In Slovene language the sentence "A dog chases a rabbit" can be said in 6 diferent ways:

1. Pes lovi zajca.
2. Zajca lovi pes.
3. Pes zajca lovi.
4. Zajca pes lovi.
5. Lovi pes zajca.
6. Lovi zajca pes.

Variants 1 and 2 are very often. Var 1 is used to stres the word zajca (A dog chases a RABBIT), var 2 to stress the word pes (A DOG chases a rabbit'). Variants 3 and 4 are less often but they can be both used when someone wants to stress the verb lovi (A dog CHASES a rabbit). Variants 5 and 6 are rare, but they can be used (mostly in poetry).

The sentence "A rabbit chases a dog" is formed by changing the form of the nouns:

1. Psa lovi zajec.
2. Zajec lovi psa.
3. ... 6. etc

I think that Slavic languages shouldn't be classified as SVO (neither as OSV,...) - they should be treated simply as languages with flexible word order. Difficult to understand for speakers of English? Marino-slo (talk) 20:07, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Even in languages with flexible word order (often due to case, such as this exemple), there tend to be a "standard" word order when no particular word is stressed. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 21:00, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Depends. For example, "She went home" will normally, in the most neutral form, be "Она поехала домой", which is SVO. But "She loves him" would normally be "Она его любит" (SOV) instead of "Она любит его" (SVO). I'd say both of these forms are equally popular, but specific form depends on particular situation. Hence, someone saying "Она любит его" (SVO) in a neutral situation would be immediately singled out as non-native speaker. Mikus (talk) 21:08, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

You I love

The entry says that romance languages use a SVO word order, but when using a pronoun as an object they use SOV. The entry then shows some examples: from French Je t'aime (I you love), and from Spanish Te amo (you I love). But, "you I love" isn't SOV, it's OSV. Thus contradicting the point. Te amo is just a form of, "Yo te amo" (I you love) but since Spanish is a null subject language the, "yo" (I) is optional. I edited the entry to say that, "te amo" is literaly, "I you love" instead of, "you I love", but this edit has been reverted. Am I wrong? Which literal translation is correct?

And on a completely unrealated note: are romance languages the only type of languages that do this? I recall reading that Greek is normaly SVO but becomes SOV with pronouns. Is this right?--Fantastic fred (talk) 19:39, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

I don't think "te amo" is better likened to "te yo amo" than "yo te amo", but "I you love" sounds very confusing in English. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 21:07, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Interesting, I just saw this after I added my opinion to the preceding section. Now thinking about it, I'd say that this rule - to prefer SOV for pronouns for objects, while preferring SVO to other cases - is very much true for Russian. Mikus (talk) 21:13, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

"This has not been scientifically examined"

I know nothing about linguistic pyschology, but imagine that it has been researched, but no consensus has been reached, or perhaps that results are still inconclusive. Again, I am ignorant on this subject so I will let someone else change if neccessary.86.42.169.184 (talk) 16:00, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Arabic language can have SVO(look to qoran)typology,for example: al qittu qata' nawatan=the cat(-nominative suffix)cutted a nut(-accusative suffix)القطُ قطعَ نواةً.

Arabic language can have SVO(look to qoran)typology,for example: al qittu qata' nawatan=the cat(-nominative suffix) cutted a nut(-accusative suffix).القطُ قطعَ نواةً

Humanbyrace (talk) 11:29, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Russian typology

This statement in the lede appears to be a typo:

Some languages are more complicated: Russian allows all possible combinations SVO, OVS, SOV, OSV, VSO, VOS. Changing the word order influences the nuance of the meaning. Usually the last word in a sentence is emphasized. But other implications are possible. Varying word order is very common in Russian."

Understanding what word order/typology is well enough to know that 1) there can be some flexibility in a language, and 2) there cannot be all-flexibility in a language: Should this passage just be nuked or is the writer getting at something valid, but using the wrong terminology? In any case, I think its both 1) out of place for the lede, and 2) so interesting, if true, that requires its own article. -Stevertigo (w | t | e) 05:41, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

I'm native Polish speaker and I know Russian as well. I think this is about more general feature about languages with no strict word order. But I can only tell about Polish and Russian. The sentence structure is in principle build using word flexion and not word position so in theory all positional permutations should be grammatically correct. However for instance the basic, neutral sentence order in Polish is definitely SVO. So sometimes there exist some "natural" order. A sentence acts like a micro-story. Its order can be for instance introduction, important actors, their interactions, and then details (neutral in Polish), can be the most interesting information first and then the rest or context, can be overall picture followed by a surprise or conclusion or something to be remembered, etc. Just patterns that can be found in a larger part of speech make sense for a single sentence, too. Spoken sentence intonation should correspond to the speaker intention. I think that SVO order is a part of a larger set of rules saying which word order is "natural" or neutral. I would call them affinities since they are not strict and some are stronger and some are weaker. My experience is that SVO affinity is stronger in Polish than in Russian. In Russian OV order is quite typical and in this case a verb at the end acts like "turning on the light" on the stage built by previous sentence parts. Head-final order in Polish is frequently used in a poetry but in a neutral context it would sound "foreign". Breaking affinities is a normal way of speaking but it cannot be random. It should correspond to a logic of a sentence micro-story. Too many broken affinities would make a sentence grammatically correct but just strange and not comprehensible. I perceive sentence being rather a set of pieces of information describing different aspects than a single "structure". It acts more like a story than a structure and the sentence order in Polish and Russian is related more to the logic of that story than to a grammatical tree structure. And also there are some natural affinities or patterns with different strengths and their intentional violation is used to provide additional context or hints. By the way I suspect that nonpositional language structure is related to a negative concord (Double negative), at least in my language. Negation should be applied, depending on the situation, to all relevant pieces of information (story aspects) and there is no monolithic "sentence" which is to be negated. Would be nice if someone could more professionally extend information about that. --Rikki tikki (talk) 21:12, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

I love you language choices

In the box showing the frequency distribution of word order in languages surveyed by Russell S. Tomlin. The examples give Latin (rather than French/Spanish) and Hebrew/Irish (rather than Arabic). These may be the languages used in the original work however it is my opinion that the examples provided are not the best choices. Latin is spoken by no native speakers, Irish by next to no native speakers while Arabic, French and Spanish are languages of the UN and have hundreds of millions of speakers.

That's just my opinion though 114.77.196.32 (talk) 02:44, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

German: Maybe another good example...

...to add to the article is conditional clauses as well as (generally) temporal clauses. I am German and I notice that this is---by far---the most difficult thing for foreigners. Ich besuche dich heute abend, sobald ich Zeit habe. (I'll visit you tonight, as soon as I have time.) And you might already have guessed what they usually say: Ich besuche dich heute abend, sobald ich habe Zeit. -andy 77.190.44.126 (talk) 10:10, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Wrong Classification of Hebrew

Hebrew is definitely SVO language. it sounds better to say "she loves him" rather than "loves she him". SVO stracture is the correct pattern in Hebrew, which is learnt in schools.

(actually, it's more likely to say "him she loves" than "loves she him".) can someone fix it? i don't have an account. thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.117.143.24 (talk) 00:26, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

Malay Isn't SVO?

The table lists Malay as SVO, but the Malay article states that "OVA, commonly but inaccurately called "passive", is the basic and most common word order". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 104.220.78.40 (talk) 04:07, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

[1], [2], etc., claim that it is SVO. The sentence "Sambil berdiang nasi masak" (while toasting, cook the rice, i. e., kill two birds with one stone) is clearly in that order. 89.173.232.70 (talk) 14:03, 23 June 2018 (UTC)

SVO in French, Italian, Spanish

SVO generally pertains to French, Italian and Spanish, but the example used by Russell S. Tomlin is wrong is this case. It would be "She him loves" in all three languages. --Explosivo (talk) 20:56, 29 September 2018 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:VO language which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 03:34, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

German is not an "SVO language"

German and Dutch should be removed from the list of "SVO-languages". It is true that in some sources they are classified in this way. But this is today a minority view and is only possible if you define: "a language that has S-V-O as the statistically most frequent order in clauses which only consist of S, O, and one single verb". As soon as you have an auxiliary, the German and Dutch order is S-Aux-O-V. In almost all aspects, the German clause behaves different from English or other true SVO languages. It is better not to apply the category to German at all (this is how the typological database WALS, chapter 81 goes about it. Alazon (talk) 13:26, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

Meanwhile, I've found out how to correct the template and brought it back.--Alazon (talk) 12:01, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

Request to Formally Add an Inclusion of Yoda on the Page

As title suggests, I suggest that we formally add an inclusion of Yoda on the page. User Robbiemuffin had stated that, on March 1st of 2008 with their edit, a mention of Yoda would be unrelated to SVO. And although unrelated to SVO, he is perfectly related to OSV, seeing as his method of speaking is a perfect example of OSV to non-OSV speakers - or at least those who can speak English.

If this is to be seen as acceptable, then the table at the beginning of the page should be edited to include "Yoda" as a "language" which speaks OSV. Yodaspeaksinosv (talk) 01:20, 1 August 2024 (UTC)