Talk:Sudan Airways Flight 109

Flight 109?

I wonder if this is really flight 109. The time of the incident just doesn't match. 109 is on on tuesdays, still it is scheduled to arrive at 3pm. It would have been delayed by several hours.

this website shows a royal jordanian flight [1]

If that's the case then I'll quickly move it; however, Al Jazerra is reporting it was a Sudanese airline... you have a point about the arrival time, though. --Golbez (talk) 19:57, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

The following sources also say Sudan Airways: [2] [3] --Golbez (talk) 20:01, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

And the quote in the article says "Amman and Syria"; the Sudan Airways flight indeed goes through Damascus, whereas the Royal Jordanian flight is direct. --Golbez (talk) 20:03, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

The Sudanese ambassador to the US says it was a Sudan Airways flight. --Golbez (talk) 21:57, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

For the record: Current time in Khartoum is 11pm. RJ710 only just departed.

Sudan 109 also matches the statement of the airport director, coming from Amman and Syria (Damascus). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.227.250.173 (talk) 20:05, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

This website says its fleet data is incomplete but lists 3 possible airframes, F-ODTK "A-300"; ST-ATA & ST-ATB "A300-622R" [4] EatYerGreens (talk) 23:22, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

The Sudan Airways flight information page said "A310". So... --Golbez (talk) 23:23, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Aye, it'll all become clear in time. I thought better than to alter the article just yet. BBC News channel is now reporting a much lower fatality count, for instance. EatYerGreens (talk) 00:05, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I think the infobox edit was sourced from ASN (it had a cite tag but that's gone). Airframes.org also had ST-ATN listed but I failed to spot it in the 'historic' records section - they'd already updated it with the accident details. EatYerGreens (talk) 08:18, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Weather

From [5]
14Z.txt
2008/06/10 14:30 HSSS 101430Z 12013KT 3000 M TS/RA FEW050CB SCT056 BKN140 Q1011 NO SIG
15Z.txt checked and no entry found for HSSS (means no change since last report)
16Z.txt checked and no entry found for HSSS
17Z.txt
2008/06/10 17:00 HSSS 101700Z 27002KT 9/9 TS RA OV ST FEW050 SCT056 BKN140 26/26 Q1013 NO SIG

18Z.txt 2008/06/10 18:30 HSSS 101830Z 15010KT 9/9 FEW050 CB TS TO E SCT 056 Q1010

Quick and dirty translation of the 5 o'clock "Khartoum 10th 1700UTC Winds 270 at 02 knots; Visibility 9 st mi; Thunderstorms, Rain. (?OV?)(?ST?) Clouds: Few 5000ft, Scattered 5600 ft, Broken 14000ft; Temp 26C, dewpoint 26C, Altimeter 1013 mb, No significant weather.

By 18:30UTC, Winds 150 10 knots, Visibility 9 st mi; (Present weather: null), Clouds: Few 5000 Cumulonimbus, Thunderstorms to E, Scattered 5600, 1010 mb. I hope this helps. EatYerGreens (talk) 23:59, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

The "OV" and "ST" abbreviations in 17:00 report are substandard for METAR. SA is Obscuration: Sand; SS is Other: Sandstorm; DS is Other: Duststorm. "OVC" is Overcast. [6] EatYerGreens (talk) 00:51, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Fuel ferrying?

This site [7] has something intruiging in the remarks section. This is not suitable for inclusion in the article. I include this just for general interest and we'll see if it appears in the final accident report. EatYerGreens (talk) 02:50, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Other issues

Jonathan Wright's piece says that the head of Medical Services at the airport is a Major-General. "Official says Sudan plane death toll 28" Reuters 2008-06-11 12:59am GMT

Am I the only one who thinks this is a bit odd? LeadSongDog (talk) 03:40, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Considering a military junta rules the country, not at all. --Golbez (talk) 03:51, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

ASN lists it as having PW4152 engines. Does that mean NTSB will want to get involved? (Aviation parts are not subject to US trade embargo, if that's still in force). It would be interesting to see how a junta responds to such approaches. EatYerGreens (talk) 08:10, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Reregistered from where?

This photo shows ST-ATN as an A310-324 with paint still incomplete as of 11 April 2008. Where was it previously registered? LeadSongDog (talk) 04:51, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Airframes(dot)org has it prev VT-EVF (for AIC), prev 9V-STU (for SIA) prev test-reg F-WWCV. It's been about a bit. EatYerGreens (talk) 07:53, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Good source. So we have A310-324 c/n 548, built 1990 under test registration F-WWCV. Served with Singapore Airlines from 1990-10-22 until 2001 under registration 9V-STU.[[8] Reregistered to Air India as VT-EVF from 2001-03-10 until 2007.[9] Reregistered to Sudan Airways as ST-ATN from 2007-09-14 until crashing 2008-06-10 at KRT.[10] LeadSongDog (talk) 16:21, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Sudan Civil Aviation Authority

Their homepage is here.] Their current news article (with aftermath photo taken in daylight) is here. Should this be used merely for cites or put in the Further Reading section, since this is where the final report should appear first? EatYerGreens (talk) 18:56, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

The Sudan CAA still seems to be having trouble with arithmetic under stress. Unless the 170 includes both passenger and crew survivors, their total aboard is more than the 214 or 217 reported.LeadSongDog (talk) 19:41, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I've downloaded their AIP, in the publications section (18Mb pdf). It says the Wx visibility reporting is in km not st mi but that "9/9" is still somewhat cryptic to me (purpose of slash and second digit). They do not provide RVR values in reports (which would be in metres, up to 9999 - I think). HSSS charts are at page 306 onwards. Airport diagram mentions bird hazard. Also has sunrise/sunset tables which, for 10th June said 1910 (local) so 17:00 UTC plus 3 means this was nearly an hour after sunset. Being equatorial that probably means dark, with or without TS and dust. EatYerGreens (talk) 20:19, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

A previous weather-related incident at Khartoum

I stumbled upon this document from the UK CAA whilst Googling for Sudan CAA. 11 March 2007, in similar weather conditions. Again, marginal relevance to the article but interesting background about the duststorm conditions pilots face. EatYerGreens (talk) 20:46, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Cause

The cited reference doesn't seem to me to support the statement

"However, other sources say the plane landed safely, but the right engine exploded ten minutes after landing, before it had come to a full stop."Far Canal (talk) 00:57, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

I swear I looked at the CNN story twice (2nd visit prompted by your comment) and the content had changed noticeably, although the URL stayed the same. Similarly, the BBC news article kept its number (in the URL) but the headline changed, causing me to edit that in the ref, originally placed by another editor. Changes to their copy were too subtle for me to notice the difference. However, this thing about an engine explosion during taxi to the gate certainly matches what BBC were putting out in their TV news, initially. I'm curious to know where they got that from, since all sources now seem to agree on variations of "veered off the runway during/after landing". EatYerGreens (talk) 08:38, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Archived sources

• "30 people killed in Sudan Airways crash – statement". Khartoum: Sudan Tribune. 11 June 2008. Archived from the original on 11 September 2012. Retrieved 11 September 2012.
• "Sudan plane crash: 100 feared dead". The Telegraph. 10 June 2008. Archived from the original on 11 September 2012. Retrieved 11 September 2012.
• Wright, Jonathan. "Official says Sudan plane death toll 28". Reuters. Archived from the original on 11 September 2012. Retrieved 11 September 2012.
• Heavens, Andrew (11 June 2008). "At least 30 killed in Sudan airliner blaze". Khartoum: Reuters. Archived from the original on 4 October 2012. Retrieved 4 October 2012.
• Kaminski-Morrow, David (11 June 2008). "Fatalities reported as Sudanese Airbus crashes at Khartoum". Flightglobal. London. Archived from the original on 11 June 2014.
• "Plane crash kills dozens in Khartoum". The New York Times. 10 June 2008. Archived from the original on 11 June 2014.
• Osman, Mohamed (11 June 2008). "Sudanese plane bursts into flames, killing dozens". Khartoum: USA Today. Archived from the original on 11 September 2012.
• "Plane explodes at Sudan airport; dozens killed". Khartoum: USA Today. 10 June 2008. Archived from the original on 11 September 2012.
• Heavens, Andrew (12 June 2008). "At least 30 killed in Sudanese airliner blaze". Khartoum: Reuters India. Reuters. Archived from the original on 11 September 2012.
• Henshaw, Amber (11 June 2008). "Miracle of surviving Sudan inferno". Khartoum: BBC News. Archived from the original on 11 September 2012.
• Moran, Benedict (11 June 2008). "Sudan Airways Airliner Fire Death Toll Rises to 30 (Update2)". Bloomberg L.P. Archived from the original on 11 September 2012.
• Karp, Aaron (12 June 2008). "Sudan Airways crash death toll at 30; at least 170 escaped". Air Transport World. Archived from the original on 16 June 2012.
• Karp, Aaron (11 June 2008). "Sudan Airways A310 bursts into flames after landing in Khartoum, 120 feared dead". Air Transport World. Archived from the original on 11 June 2008.
• "L'accident d'avion au Soudan aurait fait au moins 30 morts" (in French). Le Monde. AFP, Reuters. 11 June 2008. Archived from the original on 11 June 2014. {{cite news}}: Unknown parameter |trans_title= ignored (|trans-title= suggested) (help)

--Jetstreamer ^Talk 10:20, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

And as for the final report:

• From BEA location: http://www.webcitation.org/6SC8VFMvP
• Skybrary: http://www.skybrary.aero/bookshelf/books/2277.pdf -> http://www.webcitation.org/6SC8ZElmz

WhisperToMe (talk) 18:01, 29 August 2014 (UTC)