Talk:Sulphide portrait glassware/GA1

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Nominator: TwoScars (talk · contribs) 19:42, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: Rollinginhisgrave (talk · contribs) 19:02, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

I'll review this in the next day. Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 19:02, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Content and prose

• Link: silver sulphide

Wikilinked (in lead). TwoScars (talk) 19:05, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

• Gloss: Josiah Wedgwood, Apsley Pellatt, Benjamin Bakewell

What does "Gloss" mean? Wedgwood and Pellatt are both Wikilinked, and Bakewell could be Wikilinked to a subsection in Bakewell, Pears and Company. TwoScars (talk) 19:08, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

• In the United States, Pittsburgh

Removed "In the United States, " from the lead. TwoScars (talk) 19:09, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

• current (early 1800s) politicians then current

Changed "current (early 1800s)" to "then current" in the lead TwoScars (talk) 19:14, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

• final quarter of the late, less verbose

In Background, changed "the final quarter of the 18th century" to "the late 18th century" TwoScars (talk) 19:21, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

• They also were set in plaques of glass they also were sometimes / they could also be

In Background, changed from "They also were" to "They could also be" TwoScars (talk) 19:31, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

• to sides or bottoms add article

In Background, changed "added to sides or bottoms of glassware" to "added to the sides or the bottoms of glassware"

• viewing through the glass past tense

In Background, changed "viewing" to "viewed". TwoScars (talk) 20:18, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

• baked to a hardness could you explain what this means?

In Background, changed last part of last sentence to "then heated to a hardness so the clay mixture would withstand encasement in glass." TwoScars (talk) 20:33, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

• Bakewell was very familiar with French and English fashions and styles. integrate this better, significance is confusing here

In Bakewell, Page and Bakewell section, rewrote paragraph, omitting some details and connecting to sulphide portrait glassware TwoScars (talk) 19:05, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

• other partners different word than other

sentence is gone after rewrite TwoScars (talk) 19:05, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

• glass making company I think this needs to be hyphenated as it's functioning as an adjective

Gone after rewrite TwoScars (talk) 19:09, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

• and it reorganized again under the name Bakewell, Page and Bakewell after September 1813 or during?

Changed to ...beginning September 1, 1813, his... TwoScars (talk) 19:09, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

• About $45,000 clarify "that year"

Gone after rewrite TwoScars (talk) 19:09, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

• At times he would present gifts of glassware I'm guessing to public figures? Or just in general?

Anything that would help his company. I added a couple of sentences about gifts sent to a magazine editor. TwoScars (talk) 19:32, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

• Benjamin Bakewell moved to New York ....glassware for the White House. this is a lot of detail without mentioning sulphide glassware once. Needs to be cut way down to contextualize information relevant to sulphide glassware, or integrate discussion of article subject better.

Part of rewrite. TwoScars (talk) 19:32, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

• There is a brief mention that it was still being produced in Europe, but more attention is paid to the fact it wasn't being produced by one company in the United States. Needs a lot more discussion of European production to be balanced.

Added info in the Background section. More about Desprez, added Saint-Amans, added that Pellatt produced sulphides from the 1820s until the 1850s. At end of next paragraph, added "Lower quality imitations caused a decline in popularity". TwoScars (talk) 19:36, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

Suggestions

• Might be bold, but I would cut Barthélemy Desprez. The name adds nothing, and he doesn't appear to be notable. If he is, I would suggest redlinking him.

Shotwell mentions Desprez on page 541 (under Sulfides) He says "The process was first attempted about 1750 in Bohemia but was not successfully accomplished until later in France by Barthelemy Desprez." He has a few more sentences discussing Desprez. In Palmer's American Heroes in Glass, she shows a Desprez cut glass plaque sulphide portrait on page 7, and she also has more information about him. The Oxford Reference (not used herein) says Crystallo-ceramie is "Glass decorated with embedded ceramic cameos (typically portraits or figurines). The process was invented by the French glassmaker Barthélemy Desprez (fl1773–1819) and brought to England by Apsley Pellatt (1791–1863), who ..." I'm thinking redlink. TwoScars (talk) 19:48, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

• Later in the year → that year

Gone. TwoScars (talk) 19:39, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

• American Revolutionary War hero false title

Now says "In 1824, Marquis de Lafayette began a tour of the United States. Lafayette had achieved fame from his service in the Continental Army during the American Revolutionary War." TwoScars (talk) 19:39, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

Other

• Neutral Y
• Broad / summary style N Issues raised above; very focused on the US, and includes a lot of extra info on company without discussing sulphide portrait glassware for a while.
• No COPYVIO / OR Y; 11.5% earwig, name of source.
• Stable Y
• Illustrated YYY beautifully, all subjects in public domain, no issues there

Sources

• [4] Y
• [8] Y
• [12] AGF, can't access

From column on the right side of the page: "During the red letter year of 1825, sixty-one hands were employed, exclusive of twelve engravers and ornamenters; $45,000 worth of goods was turned out; and the plant consumed 30,000 bushels of coal in its furnaces." TwoScars (talk) 20:04, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

Gone after rewrite. TwoScars (talk) 19:48, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

• [17] {y}}
• [20] Could you get me a quote from this supporting this text?

Source says "One was De Witt Clinton, then governor of New York...." "Through his tireless efforts in making the Erie Canal a reality, Clinton earned a place in the hearts of Pittsburgh industrialists as a friend and supporter of internal improvements and manufactures." TwoScars (talk) 19:58, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

If it is necessary to have a source that says the Erie Canal lowered shipping costs (New York to Buffalo went from $90/ton to $4/ton!!), I can do that. TwoScars (talk) 19:48, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 06:23, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

Will continue tomorrow afternoon—pretty tired right now. TwoScars (talk) 20:36, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

@Rollinginhisgrave: I think I am all caught up know. Not sure what "Gloss" means. TwoScars (talk) 19:54, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

As info, re-ran reFill and "Analyze a page". TwoScars (talk) 19:55, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

Gloss just means a little description/explanation, i.e. politician Barack Obama

I think the article can be passed if you rename the background subtitle. It implies the subject is "Bakewell, Page and Bakewell" rather than Sulphide portrait glassware. (plus that redlink) Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 01:01, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

Will work on this late this afternoon or tomorrow. What if I replaced the section title "Bakewell, Page and Bakewell" with "Sulphide portrait glassware in the United States" or "Production in the United States"? TwoScars (talk) 15:25, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

That section is probably fine, as long as you mention at the top that it was responsible for a lot of production in the US. The issue is more that having a section called background implies the rest is the subject. Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 05:02, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

I think I have cleaned up everything, although I am always open to suggestions. I would like to re-read everything tomorrow afternoon. I have removed a few references that were no longer used after the slim-down of the Bakewell info. TwoScars (talk) 20:34, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

Oh, really happy with these changes. Passing. Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 07:10, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.