Talk:Survivor Series (1992)

Two things

Two things. Firstly, Tatanka never used the Fallaway Slam in his repertoire. He finished the match with a Samoan Drop (which he called 'The End of the Trail) as he did with most of his matches from that era. Secondly, as Shawn Michaels was the current Intercontinental Champion, should that be mentioned in this article as well? HDC7777 17:26, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

He used what was called a "reverse fallaway slam". It was named The End of the Trail once he turned heel in 1994.

coffin match

Why have this "(although the first recorded coffin match took place between Ivan Koloff and Dusty Rhodes in USA All-Star Wrestling in the 1980s)" in the artical when it cleary states that it was the first in the WWF not the first in the wrestling industry. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.226.205.116 (talk) 23:12, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

The edit warring has turned this article into kind of a mess

There's no consistency in what's the main event anymore. I propose we revert it back to before all these recent deletions began.★Trekker (talk) 13:33, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

No, the anon's version is factually correct. The other version that is being constantly reverted to by TBBC is both erroneous and reads like garbage, which is going to happen when someone tries to justify an error, so itself reinforces the error. This is the did to which it should be reverted. The reason it is not the current version is the edit warring. But it should be. oknazevad (talk) 13:52, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

Yes I know that now. We would revert back to it.★Trekker (talk) 13:54, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

Discussion: please support or oppose my suggestion

Okay, so I've to "discuss" this.

TBBC feels that Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels was NOT the main event, and as his citation, has offered up a scan of the Coliseum Video cover of Survivor Series 1992, stored at "thecanadianconnection.biz" (not listed as a reliable cite at WP:PW/RS). The scan states that the match summary was written by "Evart Enterprises" (the company that owns Coliseum), not the WWF.

I restored the article to a version stating that Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels IS the main event, supported by TWO WWE cites, a Sports Illustrated cite, and multiple WP:PW/RS-approved cites from PWInsider, PWTorch, Baltimore Sun, and Slam Sports.

Do you support my proposal that we revert back to Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels as the main event, supported by multiple WP:PW/RS-approved sources? If not, oppose my idea, and give your backing to TBBC's version, supported by a "thecanadianconnection.biz" cite that provides a VHS scan featuring a match summary by "Evart Enterprises". Discuss below. Cheers. 2A02:C7F:8E16:8300:E42B:2F78:719B:CAAE (talk) 13:42, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

• I wish you would have used the discussion I already opened but yes I support that we revert it back to the original version because this one looks like a mess.★Trekker (talk) 13:45, 19 February 2017 (UTC)
• Support unequivocally. As additional evidence, I would like to note that the WWE Network listing of the event lists Hart vs Michaels as the main event. oknazevad (talk) 13:52, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

• Comment I protected the article as it was clear that a lot of edit warring on both sides was going on, it is probably the wrong version so I need to see a clear consensus from those involved on the way forward, you will also have to excuse my ignorance I have no idea what the article is about so the consensus will need to be clear before the article is unprotected. MilborneOne (talk) 15:27, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

Shouldn't the pre-edit war version([1]) be restored per WP:EW? I want to assume good faith but yourself and the other editors have basically endorsed the version by TBBC, preserving his vision and protecting the article rather than rolling back to before the squabble started. His version, again, consists of gutting numerous Wikipedia policy-approved sources, in favour of an unreliable source that supports a vision already disputed by multiple editors (not just in this discussion). Just because someone has an account doesn't mean they're doing good by the project at all. 2A02:C7F:8E16:8300:3DDF:306D:3DF1:2D24 (talk) 15:56, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

That's what the wromg version link explains. Sometimes during an edit war an admin will just impose protection regardless of the current state to stop the warring. It's not victory, it's just a cease fire.

Now, I'm going to recommend you register for two simple reasons. First, it's actually more secure and anonomous because you wouldn't have your IP address to trace plastered all over the page and edit history. And b) it'll be a lot easier to contact you on your user talk page if it's the same every time. Because, it's pretty obvious to me that you are actually knowledgeable and competent in this area, and we could use you. Think about it. oknazevad (talk) 16:17, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

I also recommend you register as a user. "Join to the dark registered user side it's much more convenient and fun here."★Trekker (talk) 16:40, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

• Comment TBBC was blocked for 2 weeks for violating the WP:3RR across many articles. Nickag989^talk 17:09, 19 February 2017 (UTC)
• Support Our articles should reflect reality, not a falsehood perpetuated by a VHS box.LM2000 (talk) 19:31, 19 February 2017 (UTC)
• Support - it's unfortunate the IP got caught up in this edit war when following WP:PW/RS, IP's version is the way to go. starship.paint ~ KO 21:25, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

• Can I suggest we're putting too much emphasis on the definition of "the main event", which is ultimately a meaningless term? How about rewording the intro to simply reflect that there were two highly promoted matches on the card? McPhail (talk) 22:14, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

No. I disagree. In terms of wrestling it is not a meaningless term. Main-eventing a show is very important to a performers status and is often taken pretty seriously by the fans as well. The cases when the main event is in question are few and far between.★Trekker (talk) 22:22, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

Seconding Trekker's comment. When an elite industry performer deems his entire career a failure because he was never able to main event WrestleMania,[2], I'd say the term is quite meaningful. 2A02:C7F:8E16:8300:3829:D6DC:3A58:8AFB (talk) 09:01, 21 February 2017 (UTC)

• Support We should never judge a main event just by its VHS cover. And yes, the IP's version is better by a mile. Nickag989^talk 08:01, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
• Support. The video cassette packaging is a contemporary source, and I would be inclined to support that, but so many recent sources say it's the other way so I will go with the crowd here. 82.132.224.181 (talk) 18:57, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

Okay, but really, the VHS cover scan isn't a source at all. It is not hosted by a reliable site ("thecanadianconnection.biz" is nowhere to be found at WP:PW/RS), and it explicity states that the details therein were dreamt up by manufacturer "Evart Enterprises" and not by the WWF, who wrote and produced the show (official WWF sources totally oppose Evart's stance by unequivocally naming Hart/Michaels as the main event). By the way, the VHS cover was devised in 1993, not in 1992, so doesn't that make it a retrospective publication rather than a "contemporary" one? And the Slam Sports cite is from 2000, so it's not exactly "recent". 2A02:C7F:8E16:8300:3829:D6DC:3A58:8AFB (talk) 09:01, 21 February 2017 (UTC)

As consensus is clear I have removed protection if somebody can change the article to the agreed version, if any users start edit warring then they will be blocked for disruptive editing, thanks for your patience. MilborneOne (talk) 09:40, 21 February 2017 (UTC)

Okay I won't try saying, but I want to know who decides, were they the dipsticks at prowrestlingwiki who won't let you add anything new (like times to matches) because they wanted to add it first, as well as claim Koko B. Ware wrestled at Survivor Series 1998 and if you try deleting that they ban you?--TBBC (talk) 04:53, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

What are you even talking about?★Trekker (talk) 19:19, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

I'm talking about who decides what professional wrestling websites are reliable sources, because if it's the admin at prowrestlingwiki they're not really reliable themselves. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TBBC (talk • contribs) 02:33, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

The Wikipedia community decides via consensus. The seven sources supporting Hart/Michaels as the main event are considered highly reliable, while the one source you provided supporting Savage and Perfect vs. Flair and Ramon as the main event is considered absolute garbage. That's why the article stands as it does (and will continue to do so). 159.148.89.159 (talk) 02:48, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

I have no idea what you're blabbering about on other wikis but the version of the article that you tried to make was utter nonsense and the project has agreed on it. If you can't accept that and move on you're probbaly not mature enough to be here. Leave it be. There is a list of sources on the project which are considered reliable, use those, and no else.★Trekker (talk) 03:20, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

It is not specified on the broadcast of the event which match is the main event and, like another poster noted, in some ways it is insignificant. However, the Coliseum Video (which is definitely significant AND contemporary - no clue why anyone would argue otherwise) specifies that Ric Flair/Razor Ramon vs. Mr. Perfect/Randy Savage IS the main event. Anything written on WWE's website nowadays very well may have been written by someone just reviewing the results who wasn't actually following the product or, for all we know, may not have even been alive at the time the event was produced. The WWWF/WWF/WWE has many times produced events where the main event was not the final match on the show. This was done often in the early 1980s on Madison Square Garden shows. Also, Wrestlemania VIII from earlier in 1992 featured a double main event, with the first main event not being the last or second-to-last match on the show. If you are still a non-believer, this video shows a WWF television show shortly before Survivor Series 1992 (and after Ultimate Warrior was removed from it) that very clearly states that Ric Flair/Razor Ramon vs. Mr. Perfect/Randy Savage IS the main event: https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=2NH1YtjRLjU. There is no doubt this should be reflected on this website.Tpcrotty2 (talk) 01:31, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

This WWF programming from just a few days before the event also clearly states that the main event is Ric Flair/Razor Ramon vs. Mr. Perfect/Randy Savage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htTfC_m2V1s. (around 2 hours 15 minutes in). Tpcrotty2 (talk) 14:34, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

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