Talk:Swansea railway station

Going to move to High Street

Hi there,

There might well be an article in Swansea's varied railway history. Not sure about articles on every station, mind you! But I think it would be a good idea to move this article's title to Swansea High Street station (no capital on station) or something along those lines, since that's its name (as far as I know). There have been many stations in and around Swansea., which is why High Street station got its name in the first place, I should think.

Other stations include(d) Swansea Victoria, the Landore depot, and the terminus for the Mumbles railway. If you don't object (and don't beat me to it), I think it should move to Swansea High Street station or Swansea High Street railway station.

Sadly, the first-person comments should probably come out, too. Disappointing, I know, but.. :)

Telsa 29 June 2005 22:14 (UTC)

It shouldn't move, as the current name of the station is just "Swansea". If someone ever writes articles about the other stations, then perhaps a redirect page for "Swansea High Street railway station" (which points here) perhaps should be made. --RFBailey 14:33, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

Yeah. You'll see from the date of that comment (June) and then from the date of the edits I made subsequently to the article (July) that I obviously changed my mind... Telsa 09:13, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Heart of wales line

On previous precedents, there is a distiction between railway lines and train services. Strictly speaking, Swansea is not actually physically located on the Heart of Wales Line which is actually terminated near the Llanelli and Craven Arms railway stations. The train service that runs on the Heart of Wales Line, however does terminate at Swansea and Shrewsbury.

There is such a precedent, but its use can be confusing (the Manchester Piccadilly article being a particularly bad offender). Perhaps my most recent edit explains it better. --RFBailey 14:33, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

It used to baffle me that I regularly would see the Heart of Wales train carriage (bright orange with poetical quotes inscribed on it) in Swansea when railway-knowledgeable people would tell me "No, no, the Heart of Wales line doesn't start until Llanelli". The distinction between lines and services is not terribly clear in Wikipedia. The details are there, but only to those cognoscenti who know that there is a difference between line and service in the first place. Swansea and the Heart of Wales line/service are a particularly good example of this. I have some pictures of the Heart of Wales carriage (do I mean loco? who knows?) in Swansea station. Perhaps I should upload it with a suitably clear caption? Telsa 09:25, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

The distinction between lines and services is not terribly clear in Wikipedia.

I very much agree. That point has been made several times on various talk pages associated with British railway lines/services/stations. Unfortunately, I for one, have failed to get around to setting up a proper discussion where those with a special interest in contributing to railway articles could thrash this one out -- mostly (well, that's my excuse) because I don't know how you set about starting a "discussion area", or whatever it's called. Any advice on this would be welcome, either here or on my talk page. -- Picapica 12:34, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Actually its a bit more complex than that. Historically the heart of Wales (or rather the Central Wales line to give it the pre-marketeering era name) ran into Swansea Victoria with a branch towards Llanelli/Bynea. The line crossed the current line at Gowerton and ran down through Killay along the seafront. This section was closed pre-beeching with the closure of the docks - but did have other stations on it not mentioned in the "six" - including Swansea Bay (at the site of the slip bridge). AlanCox.

Swansea and Shrewbury in St. Louis

Probably a pointless bit of coincidental info. Starting at the end of this month, the St. Louis, Missouri metro area will connect the cities of Shrewsbury, Missouri and Swansea, Illinois via its Metrolink light rail system. Anyways, I removed a redirect to the Swansea Metrolink Station as it is near impossible for someone to confuse the two pages. --Millbrooky 01:02, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Naming

I am not terribly bothered, but for the anonymous IP who has deleted every mention of "High Street" from the article, some references.

• Arriva call it Swansea High Street Station.
• The council call it High Street Station.
• The university calls it High Street Station.
• The book A guide to the industrial archaeology of the Swansea region calls it Swansea (High Street) Station.

Telsa (talk) 09:26, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

The name is SWANSEA RAILWAY STATION as called by the train companies who run the place. Just because it's on High Street does not make it High Street Station. The only reason the council call it High St station is because they like to think we live in a huge world city with many stations. We don't! We live in a small humble city with one station. And for someone who's not ' bothered', you went through some trouble to find those sources and link them here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.0.126.97 (talk • contribs)

Actually, the official name is "Swansea" as this is what Network Rail (who own it) call it, so this is the name that should be in the infobox. However, it is also known as "Swansea High Street station" and just "High Street station", and this needs to be mentioned in the article. If you have issues with this, please explain them in a rational manner on this page (without resorting to ad hominem arguments or personal attacks) rather than reverting. Thryduulf 02:46, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

I've verified with Network Rail documents that Network Rail call it Swansea High Street Station 81.2.110.250 00:29, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Having looked at a number of official sources I have come to the conclusion that there are two "official names", (let alone common usages). "Swansea/Abertawe" seems more the more common. First Great Western as far as I can make out seem to use the shorter form, Arriva Trains Wales seem to use both forms. I am not sure what First Cymru, the bus company do, (so perhaps "First" use both forms too). I've heard onboard train staff use both forms.

I've had a stab at putting in an article on the matter, it may well be that someone can improve it, but I think it offers a way forward. Indeed since there is a debate about the name it is surely important enough to mention in the article/ This would be useful particularly for a traveller to Swansea to understand that two names are used whether officially or in common speech.

Cognoscoreror 23:40 27 Jan 2007 (GMT)

The station is also commonly known as Swansea High Street. This name is still in common use and it is found in the timetables and bus signs in the Swansea area. You can find many third party references on the web to the station still being called Swansea High Street station. A prime example is a BBC web page from Jan 2007: http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/southwest/sites/swansea/pages/heritage_trail.shtml?2, so this does need to be mentioned. Avebury 08:27, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes but it has already been mentioned later in the article. There is no need to mention it twice. It's important to understand however that High Street Station is not the official name, it's Swansea Station. That's what it's referred to in the rail industry including announcements. High Street has only local usage. 82.3.18.24 19:09, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Actually the railway industry calls it "Swansea High Street Station". It is also specifically called Swansea High Street Station in official documentation by the council, by SWWITCH, by the RMT union, by the National Assembly and a lot of other official bodies. The 82.3.18.24 editor appears to believe that the signage shows the official name of a railway station. This is not in fact true in all cases. 81.2.110.250 22:38, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Further vandalism removed. Please stop vandalising this article. The station is officially known as Swansea High Street Station. You can confirm this with Network Rail's own documents, and with the Arriva franchise. In fact any discussion is really rather irrelevant now given that Arriva have erected a huge sign on the station entrance which says "Welcome to High Street station' 81.2.110.250 17:08, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

This is all so trivial as to be funny, really, but it's messing up my watchlist with this low-level constant reversion. Instead of discussion via edit summary, can we talk it out on the talk page? Things I, for one, don't understand include: what are the "historical reasons" for the sign saying High Street; in whose eyes "Swansea remains the name" - I posted a bunch of web and one big book reference months ago, and one of the IP addresses has posted others, all of which say High Street - so who is the person/group/body saying it's Swansea; and why this subject inspires such passion. (Oh, and there are other stations besides High Street in Swansea-the-county, although I imagine the residents of Gowerton would not consider themselves to be part of Swansea-the-city, so on that one, some precision might help.) Telsa (talk) 18:03, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

• Right, I'd like to settle this pointless edit war. The operator of the station has designated it as Swansea railway station. Yes, at one time there was more than one station in Swansea, that's why it was called High Street, but with Beeching's plans, there remains only one station in Swansea (the city, not the county) to this day and thus the name was shortened because no disambiguation is needed. This is why you will hear in station announcements and see on departure boards Swansea, not Swansea High Street. Of course Swansea Council and Swansea University are going to call it High Street. They are biased bodies. They can call it whatever they want, but it doesn't change the name of the station. Also Network Rail do not operate the station, so they don't decide its name either. It's the same principal with the Cardiff telephone code. I have heard a lot of people call it 02920, where in reality its 029 (see Cardiff and Big Number Change). Call it 02920 if you want, doesn't change fact. So, any further edits or reverts without a sufficient reason will be treated as vandalism and necessary action taken. Welshleprechaun 02:10, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Please note that on checking Welshleprechaun's IP address, this user has been banned twice before for vandalising articles with his anti-Swansea agenda and attempts to falsify information on Wikipedia. The hard fact is that is station is also known as High Street station and sigs used by the operator of this station use this name. That's pretty official. It's only one (and only one) editor's personal opinion that it's not. I'd like to warn that user that even though they are operating from a shared IP address, that it can still be banned and they will be reported to the owner of the address. Avebury 13:35, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

The usage of High Street has already been explained. If you checked the sources, you'd realies that High Street is, in fact, not official. So I suggest you get your facts right. Avebury, your recent edit is nothing but pro-Swansea POV, as you have already shown in your edits to the article Swanline. 128.240.229.3 18:13, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Some of us have checked our sources, right back to formal documents for the operation of the line. It is known as Swansea High Street Station. Network Rail (the owners) confirm this. Network Rail documents confirm this. If the owner and railway administrator calls it High Street then it is High Street. It is even clearly signposted as High Street station on the front of the building 81.2.110.250 —Preceding comment was added at 23:14, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Network rail don't own it, Arriva do and they call it Swansea 128.240.229.3 23:41, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Please learn the minimal about the adminstration of the UK railway network before vandalising articles. Network Rail own the Swansea High Street station. Trenau Arriva Cymru administer the station according to the Franchise agreement, the rules of the route for which call it "Swansea High Street Station". Furthermore Arriva have a large blue sign on the front of the station which in huge letters says "Welcome to High Street station". So 1) Network Rail the owners call it High Street 2) Arriva trains have erected a huge sign saying its high street station 3) the post office say its high street station 4) the government say its Swansea high street station. I suggest next time you are out of newcastle you actually take a look at the station and observe the signage. Now kindly stop the vandalism. I don't really want to have to give Ian Rutherford all the page change times IPs and logs and ask him to take action. 81.2.110.250 —Preceding comment was added at 01:50, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Photographic proof: [1] - Arriva signage saying High Street station. AlanCox —Preceding comment was added at 02:35, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

The proof lies above it. Note Swansea/Abertawe. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.240.229.65 (talk) 23:05, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

And no doubt you'd argue that Birmingham New Street should perhaps be called "Birmigham New' by ignoring half the signage too. Please stop vandalising the Swansea Railway Station page with your old or new IP address. 81.2.110.250 (talk) 19:50, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

81.2.110.250, don't be so stupid. Anyway, I've edited the section to include cases for both Swansea and Swansea High Street. Many official organisations including the council, the university, Arriva etc. use both terms so any further drastic edits are hypocritical (assuming these editors are against vandalism) and just pushing your POV across. Welshleprechaun (talk) 13:40, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Umm this would be the Welsh Leprechaun who has been banned before ? Please stop vandalising this article. I've no objection to covering both names, but you have changed it from one POV to the reverse without citing clear evidence. Show me statistical analysis from a third party. 81.2.110.250 (talk) 15:05, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Clear evidence? Apart from the references from Swansea Council, the Assembly etc.? If you are referring to public usage, you obviously can't cite that but if you think more people say that they're going to Swansea High Street station rather than Swansea station then you've obviously never been to Swansea Welshleprechaun (talk) 16:46, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Not only have I been to Swansea, I live there. It's called high street station by the railway companies, the bus companies, the official articles that define the route, the owners of the building, and a bloody great big blue sign on the front. High street station is a name routinely used by locals (eg in the local press letters pages [2]

81.2.110.250 (talk) 18:47, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Bus companies do not define the name. And with regards to it being referred to High Street by the train companies, I think you'll find that it's listed as Swansea in train timetables and on platform signs. I used to live in Swansea as well and you must be joking if you think more people call it High Street. Arriva erected the High Street sign to keep Swansea people's self-importance up. Welshleprechaun (talk) 20:57, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

As someone who lives in Swansea I can confirm its often called High Street station. The sign also reflects the official naming within the railway system and legal acts as well as the franchise agreements. I can only imagine the simplified "Swansea' signage is there to avoid overtaxing the brains of visitors from further east. 81.2.110.250 (talk) 23:08, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Do you know why some stations have a name? It's because there is more than one railway station in that town or city such as Birmingham New Street and Cardiff central. There is now only one passenger station in Swansea (the city not the county) and that's why High Street is dropped, because there is no disambiguation needed. Welshleprechaun (talk) 21:41, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Tell that to the hundreds of thousands of current and former local residents (and even railwaymen) who persist in referring to it as "High Street". 90.203.45.214 (talk) 20:40, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Didn't know there were so many ignorant people in Swansea Welshleprechaun (talk) 21:31, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Connections

Somebody keeps adding information about connections about Cardiff Central station to this and other Welsh station articles. The connection information about services from Cardiff central has already been stated in the Cardiff Central railway station article. It is not really directly relevant in other station articles. According to Wikipedia:Conflict of interest, Wikipedia is not a place to promote travel services from Cardiff. If we are to add connection information about connections at other stations with direct services to this station, the list could be huge and detract from the core relevant information about this article. Avebury 17:15, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Naming, again

Swansea (Swansea High Street) Welsh: Abertawe (Stryd Fawr Abertawe)
General information
Location	United Kingdom

The station name in the infobox is a mess (see right). Other station articles do not look like this. A recent edit summary states "Network Rail documentation, and new station signage depict iras Swansea High Street". Where is the evidence for this? This page certainly states simply "Swansea", and I am willing to accept "Abertawe" as the Welsh form. Even if it were so, we should have |name=Swansea High Street and |other_name={{lang-cy|Stryd Fawr Abertawe}}. --Redrose64 (talk) 16:49, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

I was unaware it had been changed. I believe that sign does exist - Google Street View for the evidence, but as is the case for dozens if not hundreds stations across the country I believe this to be a commemoration of its historical name of a time when even places as small as Swansea had multiple railway stations. However you only need to look at a railway timetable, platform signage and Arriva/FGW/Network Rail websites to see this name is no longer used, except by a few nostalgic trainspotters. I'm therefore removing the outdated name as per previous discussions and contemporary official naming. Welshleprechaun 19:53, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, but be prepared for reaction from those who desire its presence. --Redrose64 (talk) 20:00, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

I shall kindly point them to sources, previous discussions and an arbitration committee if need be. Welshleprechaun 20:05, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Via Stroud

@Redrose64: et al, do you know why the distance to this station from London Paddington is measured "via Stroud"? Isn't the more usual route via Bristol Parkway and the Severn Tunnel? Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 18:20, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

@Amakuru: Yes, it's because the route via Stroud was brought into full use on 19 July 1852 (the last section to open being the one-mile stretch across Chepstow bridge), but the present route through the Severn Tunnel was not completed until 1 May 1903 with the opening of the stretch between Badminton and Patchway. Railway lines are not normally re-surveyed when a shorter route opens; so the present route to Swansea has these mileages:

• Paddington station: 6 chains from Paddington zero (difficult to explain, basically the zero point is to the south-east of the buffer stops at the boundary of the former GWR property on Praed Street)
• Patchway Junction No. 2: 112 miles 69 chains from Paddington zero, and 5 miles 61 chains from Bristol Temple Meads
• Severn Tunnel Junction: 16 miles 73 chains from Bristol Temple Meads, and 149 miles 14 chains from Paddington zero (via Stroud)
• Swansea High Street station 216 miles 7 chains from Paddington zero (via Stroud)

You'll find something worse with the line from Euston to Glasgow, which has several zero points as well as the "long mile" where the railway was diverted at Wolverton. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 21:07, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

@Redrose64: oh wow, there's an interesting lesson for me. Thanks for explaining all that, I had no idea!  — Amakuru (talk) 22:20, 19 February 2019 (UTC)