Talk:Sydney Devine

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Stub Plus

It seems to me that the subject deserves more than the stub plus the article currently is. Perhaps an editor is a fan; there are plenty in Scotland even after his death. I'm going to remove the bit about his daughter being Scotland's finest ventriloquist, though. Although hilarious, because it conveys the impression that she was doing the singing with her hand shoved up the old boy's back, it is hardly objective. Emmentalist (talk) 12:08, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

On reflection, I really don't know what would be worse. Her realising that after 20 years of inactivity her Dad was on the way out and so rigged up a horror show with her sitting behind him singing with her hand up his shirt and him looking like a zombie moving his jaws in a monstrous manque of a genuine human performer; Or him trying to find an enthusiastic zeal through which to introduce his daughter, the rubbish ventriloquist, to 20 people in a dusty church hall in Brora.Emmentalist (talk) 12:18, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

I found a good source, Devine's London Times obituary. I've used it extensively. I've also used a deprecated source - I followed the procedure for a rare inclusion of a deprecated source in good faith. Here is my reasoning. The source is The Sun. But Devine is truly a big figure in the lives of many working class people in Scotland and The Scottish edition of The Sun (The Scottish Sun) does report such biographical details accurately, imho. Also, the details are well-known but higher brow publications are generally unlikely to give much print space to figures like Devine. I am confident the details included are accurate but perhaps another editor can find undepcrecated sources? The Times obit is quite a find, and great credit to The Times for it. Finally, some of my edits are lighthearted in their expression. They are made with love and I am quite sure Devine would have appreciated them (well, maybe...). Devine, like Andy Stewart also of the White Heather Club, was a genuinely talented performer who had a keen and ironic awareness of the occasional absurdity which permeated his relationship with popular American music genres. And so my edits are made with love. That is all. Emmentalist (talk) 18:43, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

Tags

Removed tags from 2021, having entered appropriate references. Emmentalist (talk) 16:30, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

Elvis' Ghost

Reverted deletion of reference to Devine's claim that he had met Elvis' ghost. This is supported by a reliable source (Times of London obituary) and is widely referred to elsewhere. It is a quirky detail which gives some insight into Devine's effervescent personality. Please do not delete without discussion here. Emmentalist (talk) 13:54, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

3rd opinion

There is a disagreement between two editors (see article history), about whether the subject's playful claim that he met Elvis' ghost (often repeated by the subject and reported in Times of London (deleted citation)) should be included. My own view is that his claim that he played in front of Elvis and the claim that he met Elvis' ghost has the same sourcing and status. My view is that they are knowingly mischevious claims made by a Scottish national treasure, which amused his wide Scottish audience; @Benfskye1 feels that it should not be. (The latter has not made comment here at the Talk page but I feel her/his view should be regarded respectfully as the second opinion for the purpose of this 3rd opinion request). Emmentalist (talk) 22:17, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

Response to third opinion request (Disagreement on inclusion of phrasing indicating article subject saw Elvis' ghost):

I am responding to a third opinion request for this page. I have made no previous edits on Sydney Devine and have no known association with the editors involved in this discussion. The third opinion process is informal and I have no special powers or authority apart from being a fresh pair of eyes.

Note that my opinion below is predicated on the assumption that the listed source substanties then had later in his life met Elvis' ghost, as I cannot evaluate the source myself. The claim in itself doesn't do any harm to the article, but in my view it isn't adding any enclopedic value, so I'd say it would be better to leave it out. Someone who is a fan of Sydney may find the fact interesting, but someone trying to learn about him through a Google search would probably be a tad confused why Wikipedia felt a need to mention that. If there was a conversation ocurring amongst sources regarding this claim from Sydney, his mental state, or something to that effect, there would be a stronger arguement for it. —Sirdog (talk) 08:21, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

Thanks so much @Sirdog! All the best, Emmentalist (talk) 08:42, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

• You can well say that the subject has "claimed" to have seen the ghost if it is properly backed by enough reliable sources. Orientls (talk) 18:36, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

  I thought so! Emmentalist (talk) 20:57, 31 March 2023 (UTC)