Talk:Synchronized swimming

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was move. JPG-GR (talk) 05:58, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Should at be Synchronised swimming - http://www.fina.org/project/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=49&Itemid=119 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.168.192.244 (talk) 11:03, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

As per the above comment, this article should be at Synchronised swimming as per the spelling in the FINA rules for the sport. --Nick Moss (talk) 07:41, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Hmm... not sure if WP:ENGVAR is appropriate here. I get more google hits for "Synchronized swimming". And "z" spelling is used at www.olympic.org. 87.114.152.62 (talk) 08:51, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names) might be relevant here. --Joshua Issac (talk) 17:44, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

• Support move, as correct name given by governing body. +Hexagon1 ^(t) 01:05, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
• Mildly support - If it's FINA's preferred spelling, that's probably sufficient grounds. Note that the official 2008 Olympics site mixes both in its headers! -PhilipR (talk) 17:33, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
• Weak support - A Google search yields more results for Synchronised swimming than Synchronized swimming.Joshua Issac (talk) 15:28, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Presence of MEN in the competitions Please can you take note : most European countries have modified their rules to allow men to compete in regional and national meetings, against women or not; France even allows male only podiums since 2003, if the number of participants is sufficient. The first international meeting in which men competed was IGLA PARIS 2000. It was a master's competition. Since, men were seen swimming at IGLA 2003 in San Francisco, IGLA 2004 in Fort Lauderdale, Outgames 2006 in Montréal, IGLA PARIS 2007, Eurogames 2008 in Barcelona, Outgames 2009 in Copenhagen, Gay Games 2010 in Cologne, not to forget Men's Cup 1 in Prague (2005), 2 in Stockholm (2007), 3 in Milano (2009), and 4 next year in Amsterdam - and I miss a few !! Christian Bordeleau head of synchro section Paris Aquatique —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.249.194.251 (talk) 10:53, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

When I saw this, I thought it meant someone was requesting a synchronized swimming move. Dang. – AndyFielding (talk) 10:12, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

US centric

This article appears extremely US-centric, and to a lesser extent focused on other English-speaking countries to the exclusion of everything else. For example, I don't think a detailed rundown of every state high school association promoting the sport or a link to all those clubs are needed in an overview article. If this US-centered material is encyclopedic and notable, shouldn't it be offloaded to Synchronized swimming in the United States? Perhaps I should submit this at Wikipedia:WikiProject Countering systemic bias? - PhilipR (talk) 17:31, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

I agree - the list of "sample" clubs just adds to the impression (despite the apologetic introduction). 621PWC (talk) 17:30, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Confusing but good-faith anonymous edit

This edit appears to have been well-intentioned, and thanks to the anonymous editor for attempting to improve the article. However, the changes are not well-sourced and some may be POV. At some point someone should check these edits and either provide sources, revert them, or at least clean them up a bit as needed. - PhilipR (talk) 05:14, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Isn't that just what you did? Indeed, that very sort of thing is what gives many of our lives meaning (although by saying that, I don't mean to cast aspersions on anyone's reputation as being in demand beyond the confines of WP). Also, as you posted this around 14 years ago, it's entirely possible that you may have since realized that WP often works just as you've described it. – AndyFielding (talk) 10:24, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

Dang—I was sure I started that with a colon so it'd be indented. (Unfortunately, the mobile version of WP's editor doesn't let us edit our Talk posts, or I'd do it now.) This has nothing to do with synchronized swimming, though, so I'll curtail the topic-drift. Carry on, fellow obsessives! – AndyFielding (talk) 10:28, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

Controversy

The page, so far, lacks one important piece of balance: the controversy over whether synchronised swimming should continue to be an Olympic sport. It would be good if someone could write this and provide good source attribution. This is not my field so I do not feel qualified. 621PWC (talk) 17:33, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

I agree that the article would benefit from a controversy section. Rightly or wrongly, there is a large body of opinion that considers SS ridiculous and not a serious sport, equivalent to ballroom dancing or beach volleyball. These views may be unfair and even mysogynistic but the article should cover them. I'm not an expert in this subject, so don't feel qualified to modify it. --Ef80 (talk) 12:30, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

The title?

The title of this article is "Synchronised..." and the first sentence says "Synchronized...". What happened? tablo (talk) 22:43, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Now the title redirect has (wrongly - see below) been changed to Synchronized and needs to be changed back (with "Synchronized swimming" directing to "Synchronised swimming").

The spelling situation (Synchronize/Synchronise) is a real mess here with both ise and ize endings used in the text (I'm not talking about the lists - see separate comment about that). Wikipedia convention is that all LOCAL spellings are ok for LOCAL articles. But this page relates to an INTERNATIONAL sport and, therefore, the spellings should be International-English,not American-English (which has unique spellings introduced unilaterally by Noah Webster and not adopted by the rest of the English-speaking world). It is entirely wrong that American-English should be assumed to take precedence over International-English for an international topic. Editors/contributors, please restrict unique American spellings to pages unique to the United States.

I briefly went through the text to try to make these uniform (as ise) although where there is a reference to an American publication which locally used ize then this should not be changed.

PLEASE NOTE: the international governing body of this sport (FINA) spells it "synchronised" and that should, therefore, be the convention here as this article relates to an INTERNATIONAL sport and not a sport unique to the United States. 621PWC (talk) 20:24, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Coming back to look at this article six years later, I am profoundly disappointed to see that the article is still incorrectly titled as Synchronized swimming rather than Synchronised. What we're basically saying is that it doesn't matter what the world governing body calls the sport; it doesn't matter how many other countries refer to it using the International-English spelling ... despite all that, the American spelling will prevail. --621PWC (talk) 04:59, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

Without prejudice to what FINA says, the idea that "ize" is American and "ise" British/International, is a popular misconception. If there was an original or "correct" form, it would be "ize", being the preferred ending for typical English (i.e. *British* English) translations of certain classical Greek words. At that time, the "ize" form would have been pretty much universal. However, at some point, a British fashion arose for "ise", stemming from the erroneous view that "ize" was an American corruption. And the myth grew from there. These days, both are acceptable, so consistency, not correctness per se, is what matters. That said, if you want to wag the finger of tradition and etymology in someone's face, you really should be upholding "ize", and not this new-fangled "ise" monstrosity. :-) 2605:6000:F369:D000:448F:A4EC:D305:2DA7 (talk) 16:43, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

water ballet

got any info on the athletes or synchronised swimming history/how it is today ???????? Olive pop (talk) 08:59, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

this document havent got any beautiful photo

if you want to take a good and a artist photos go to : www.sincroretiro.es or com i dont remember the protograf are a dad of a children of this club: Miguel Toledano and the club is in spain in madrid —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.14.105.81 (talk) 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Figures?

I feel there should be some examples of figures. The section is very brief. I think there should be a few examples at least, since figures are a big part of an overall teams score when it comes to nationally competing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Its dan rad (talk • contribs) 18:51, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

Solo Synchronized Swimming?

I'll admit that I only skimmed the article, so it may have mentioned it and I missed it; but how does one synchronized by ones self? Is it just the normal theatrics/acrobatics just individually as apposed to with a partner/group?

Whatever it is, the article should mention it whatever it is; assuming, again, that it doesn't already. 67.42.38.72 (talk) 11:56, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

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Average eggbeater height?

What does "height" in this sentence mean? "An average eggbeater height is usually around collarbone level." I thought that "height" refers to a distance (from a bottom level to a top level).

Does it mean that the collarbone is approximately at the water surface? --Austrian (talk) 07:13, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

How many in a team?

I came to the article to find out how many people are in a team, but while there are currently 27 instances of the word "team", there is only one mention of the number (in "Competitions" in the US subsection) and that is only parenthetical, and it's merely a range (4-8). Could someone precisely specify at least the Olympic rules number? I looked elsewhere to see if I could find the info and add it myself, but it is surprisingly difficult to find. I believe (based on a couple of Olympic sites, and tea USA.org) that nine athletes get registered, but only eight compete. But that could be nine from whom eight are picked per swim; or eight from whom a smaller number are picked per swim (and with the ninth being only for injury-substitution purposes); or something else. Whenever someone adds the info, could you ensure it's put (or at least mentioned) in the lead since it does seem to be a fairly important point. Thanks! 2605:6000:F369:D000:448F:A4EC:D305:2DA7 (talk) 16:32, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

Updates

The FINA rules need to be updated on a regular basis. Most countries abide by the FINA rules, so I think it's important that those are kept up. We all know that synchronized swimmers want to be taken seriously, so current information for everything is key. Lets keep up the editing and make it a great page! Megloe (talk) 17:23, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

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Making Artistic swimming the primary article

Hello all. Since July 2017, the global governing body FINA has renamed the sport of synchronized swimming as artistic swimming.[1] All event references and rules by FINA are now for artistic swimming and not synchronised swimming.[2]

I propose to make the article artistic swimming as the main article (requesting a history move to the said title). If there's any opposition to this, please do mention here. Thanks, Lourdes 00:17, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

• Team USA doesn't seem to have fallen in line with the name change. If the new name isn't widely adopted then a determination will need to be made as to which is the most common. Helpful will be examples of how the press names the sport in their coverage of events. wbm1058 (talk) 03:26, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

• Hello Wbm1058, Team USA has fallen in line. See Item 1 in 2017 Rules which were passed, "Item 1: Change all reference to Synchronized Swimming to Artistic Swimming." Other than that, all references from Team USA now are of "artistic swimming". For example, see the Team USA 2017-2021 approved panels, which include artistic swimming (and in brackets, the term "synchro" for those who wish to relate). The Team USA 2018 World Series is also known as artistic swimming.[3] Lourdes 04:02, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

• Not an easy name change given the articles in Category:Synchronized swimming... which of these will need new titles too? wbm1058 (talk) 03:48, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

• Yes, but in my opinion, that's what a good encyclopedia should intend to do. We can't probably reject a globally-accepted change because there are many articles that might need the reference change, no? Of course, I'll go by your discretion in this, although the current discussion should, in my opinion, be focused on just this article and not necessarily the other ones (which can be taken up in a group manner separately). Thanks, Lourdes 04:05, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

• Hi Wbm1058, hope you're well. If you might not have any other issues, would you be able to put this move into motion? Thanks, Lourdes 04:30, 1 February 2018 (UTC)

I'm generally OK with quick name changes of sports stadiums and such when the naming rights are sold to a new sponsor. Though there are some editors who, even in that scenario, will insist on seeing WP:reliable secondary sources before voting to move. In this scenario, I'm not so keen for a quick move. Just showing me some primary source documents saying the world body has changed their name isn't quite enough to ensure an easy consensus to move. Find me some newspapers or TV networks covering the sport and calling it by the new name. I expect to see lead sentences saying, "...artistic swimming, formerly called synchronized swimming..." or similar. Until then, the WP:official name has changed, but the WP:common name hasn't, and we title articles by common name. Has the new artistic swimming season started under the new name? We may need to wait for that. I don't doubt that the name will change, but I'm not sure that this isn't "too soon". – wbm1058 (talk) 14:47, 1 February 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the quick response Wbm1058. I think that's a fair assessment. Let me work on this and see how my search for sources goes. Thanks again, Lourdes 14:55, 1 February 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 15 March 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. No prospect of consensus to move at this time. Andrewa (talk) 15:25, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

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Synchronised swimming → Artistic swimming – It is time to revisit moving this page, two years after the discussion above and three years after the name was changed (see https://swimswam.com/fina-renames-synchronized-swimming/). The name of this sport is currently artistic swimming as per the international governing body FINA (see http://www.fina.org/discipline/artistic-swimming) and the International Olympic Committee (see https://www.olympic.org/artistic-swimming). The new name was used at 2019 World Aquatics Championships (see https://www.fina-gwangju2019.com/) and the 2018 Asian Games (see https://en.asiangames2018.id/sport/artistic-swimming/). It will used at the 2020 Summer Olympics (see https://tokyo2020.org/en/sports/artistic-swimming/) and the 2020 European Aquatics Championships (see https://len-budapest2020.com/artistic/). Most national governing bodies have now followed suit, such as USA Artistic Swimming, whose CEO stated in 2020 that "19 of the top 25 countries in the world are either partially or fully using the name artistic swimming" (see https://www.sportstravelmagazine.com/usa-synchro-rebrands-to-usa-artistic-swimming/). Zyxw (talk) 07:58, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose - what an activity is called by one governing body is not authoritative to the activity as a whole. There is no evidence that the COMMONNAME of this has changed. The only acceptable change would be to move it to synchronized swimming (with a "z") as that is the most common spelling by far according to Google Ngrams English overall (and in British English), Scholar[4][5], and is in use by the Encyclopedia Brittanica itself. -- Netoholic @ 09:18, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
  • Comment: It is no longer just one governing body. As of 2020, most regional and national governing bodies also use the name "artistic swimming". It is also used in reliable sources written after the name change, which should be given extra weight according to WP:NAMECHANGES. I realize that some might think it doesn't meet WP:COMMONNAME just yet. If this request to move the page to artistic swimming fails, I would agree that it should be moved back to synchronized swimming (the original title until a page move on 3 December 2015). -- Zyxw (talk) 11:59, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
    • WP:NAMECHANGES applies names (ie personal or official names) not everyday terms. -- Netoholic @ 04:57, 16 March 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose for now. Synchronised swimming is a very well-established term, and it should require fairly strong evidence to change this. BD2412 T 02:31, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose (at least for now). Synchronised swimming is the WP:COMMONNAME. jamacfarlane (talk) 04:04, 25 March 2020 (UTC)
• Closing comment: I note that all the evidence supporting the move seems to be primary sources. There's a strong consensus not to move at this time, and I'd suggest that this is at least part of the reason. But my closing is just based on assessing clear consensus. Andrewa (talk) 15:25, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

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The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Cheerleading hyperlink

Why does "cheerleading" hyperlink to the article on competitive swimming? --FlailingMadness (talk) 01:21, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

• The connection to cheerleading seems dubious; I've simplified the opening sentence, which no longer includes this link. 162 etc. (talk) 23:02, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

"Upside down"?

Synchronised swimming demands advanced water skills, great strength, endurance, flexibility, grace, artistry and precise timing, as well as exceptional breath control when upside down underwater.

Is that last part literal? Granted, I'd find it quite challenging to control my breath—or much of anything—were I to have to hold myself upside down underwater (which, fortunately, hasn't happened yet). But I wonder if this actually means "…exceptional breath control when submerged." If so, I'd say that. (I haven't presumed it to change it myself, as my own synchronized swimming experience—as you may have guessed by now—is negligible.) – AndyFielding (talk) 10:11, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

• I've trimmed the paragraph containing this sentence, as it was rather unencyclopedic in tone. 162 etc. (talk) 23:16, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

Weird faces, weirdness in general.

Came here hoping to find an answer, but besides acknowledging it's what the sport is most famous for no one seems to address why they pull such over the top silly faces, or do weird things like waddle out like penguins, or robots, and put their nose plugs in all at the same time. Are they being weird for the sake of being weird? Is it to draw attention to the sport as 'that weird sport'? Tbh it's ALL I think of when I think of the sport, and according to my extensive trawling of the internet tonight it is literally all anyone else thinks of too. So I had hoped there'd be SOME reference to it here. Has no one ever really explained this mystery? 2001:8003:2961:AD00:50FD:2CD8:8930:2A5B (talk) 07:41, 21 August 2023 (UTC)