Talk:Syndromic autism

Requested move 12 June 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Characteristics of syndromic ASD conditions → Syndromic autism – The article should (and already kind of does) cover the concept of syndromic autism as a whole and not just the "characteristics of syndromic ASD conditions". It still makes sense to explain the term "non-syndromic autism" (and synonyms) within the first sentence and redirect these terms here, but they are clearly not a focus. What do you think, @Digressivo and @Mruanova? TempusTacet (talk) 11:21, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

Support I completely agree, I wanted to propose the same thing. Digressivo (talk) 11:34, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

I think we can close the discussion, @TempusTacet agreed, @Digressivo agreed, I agreed, cc: @Paine Ellsworth Mruanova (talk) 13:44, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

@Paine Ellsworth Sorry for interfering with your work, I wasn't notified that there had been changes to the article in the meantime when I published my revision. Also note that this article was created by copy-pasting from autism spectrum.--TempusTacet (talk) 13:48, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

Do you mean that this is then a split-off subtopic of the Autism spectrum article? Because that would be okay if you're just making a too-long article shorter by splitting off material into a new article. The issue was that this article was copy-paste moved to Syndromic autism and had to be reverted. Page moves cannot be performed that way. The move link near the top of the page should be used to move pages so that the edit history is also moved and legal attributions will be kept intact. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^{put'er there} 13:57, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

I'm not sure I understand what you mean so I'll explain it again but in a different way. The article Characteristics of syndromic ASD conditions was created by copying text from autism spectrum. In that sense, it is a "(partial) move" and hence my concern whether this is OK, as I don't see a qualitative difference to then taking the text from Characteristics of syndromic ASD conditions and creating a new article syndromic autism, which you pointed out is "a no-no" and reverted. The history of Characteristics of syndromic ASD conditions does not contain the history of the article's content either. (I do understand the technical implications of a page move, ie, that this effectively renames the article, keeping its history, and creates a new page with the previous name without any history that is just a redirect.)--TempusTacet (talk) 14:24, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

In a nutshell, there are three major page dispositions: merges, splits and moves. The merges and splits require only that notice is given on the talk pages using {{old merge}} or {{split article}}. Full page moves must not be copy-and-pasted like merges and splits, though, and must be performed using the move link near the top of the page. If there is no move link, then the page is move-protected. If there is a move link and you try to use it but you still cannot move the page, it just means that you need someone with the tools needed to make the page move, an admin or a page mover. WP:RMTR is for technical requests, or you can do what you did and start a formal move request. To answer editor Mruanova's question, I'm not averse to closing this request as either a WP:SNOW situation or a tech request. But if someone later disagrees with the page move, then another move request might be needed. So since this is your (TempusTacet) move request, what would you like to do? P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^{put'er there} 14:51, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

Thanks a lot! I added a split notice above. I believe that we can go ahead with the move. I just didn't want to move without first consulting Digressivo (who created the impressive table in the article and is presumably the only true expert on the topic among us) and Mruanova (who split the content and chose the new article's name).--TempusTacet (talk) 15:01, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

I can't move the page because syndromic autism already exists. I'll file a technical move request.--TempusTacet (talk) 15:05, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

No need to file, because I have the page mover tools and will close this request and move the page for you. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^{put'er there} 15:16, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Questions regarding the terminology

Hi @Digressivo, you appear to be the only expert on the subject among us, so I have a couple of questions.

I'm struggling to understand what exactly the terms "syndromic autism spectrum disorders" and "syndromic autism" (and their antonyms) refer to and looking through the literature it seems to me that they're used differently in different contexts. (For the sake of clarity, I'll use medical terminology in the following.)

Is syndromic autism a specific case of autism where the ASD diagnosis is part of a broader clinical picture that is associated with a (usually genetic) cause? Eg would one say that an individual with Rett's syndrome who meets the DSM-5 ASD diagnostic criteria "is a case of syndromic autism"?

Is "Rett's syndrome" as a medical condition an example of a "syndromic autism spectrum disorder"? Eg can one say that "Rett's syndrome belongs to the syndromic autism spectrum disorders"?

What about a specific case of eg Smith-Lemli-Opitz syndrome (which according to the table has an ASD prevalence of around 50%) where the individual does not present as autistic/does not meet criteria for an ASD diagnosis? Is that still "syndromic autism" and/or is Smith-Lemli-Opitz syndrome still "a syndromic ASD"?--TempusTacet (talk) 10:43, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

The numbers for Neurofibromatosis type 1 are not entirely correct.

The most current data shows that the incidence of autism in neurofibromatosis is between 15% and 40%. Here are some of the papers I recommend on this topic; the numbers vary among the studies, but this is the approximate range I gather based on my readings of them and others. Garg et al. 2012; Payne 2012; Garg et al. 2014; Plasschaert et al. 2014; Huijbregts et al. 2015; Vogel et al. 2017; Morotti et al. 2020; Smith et al. 2020; Xue et al. 2021; among many others. Fechu93 (talk) 22:21, 20 October 2024 (UTC)