Talk:Synthetic fence

Speedy delete?

Keep and improve. It reads like an ad, but that doesn't mean it should be deleted. There are other articles about fence types see Fence#Types. Some are listed there as bullet points. Others have complete articles. If the article is kept, it should be improved. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 17:25, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Looks like just a place to put more ad links

Delete - written like an ad. Following a single 'reference' link, #2, it leads to a page of ads. I have reverted this promotional edit by the same editor to Fence. --CliffC (talk) 18:01, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

• Keep The topic is notable - please see above for more sources. Colonel Warden (talk) 19:18, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

• Keep I did a big cleanup to get rid of the advertising language and put in a more balanced discussion. While new, it is at least as notable as chain link fence, Barbed wire or electric fence. Still needs sources and improvement, but past the prod tag point —Preceding unsigned comment added by Montanabw (talk • contribs) 19 October 2009

Article title

Richard, I reverted the move to "plastic" fence. Not sure about useage and implied tone in the UK, but in the US, to say "plastic" implies cheap, weak, useless stuff. (a common phrase being "cheap plastic crap") May be some wisdom to your argument to expand the article to include other materials (nylon rope inlaid with wire used for electric fencing, for example, or PVC rails), but need a different name than "plastic." Maybe "synthetic" would work. But just wanted to let you know my reasoning behind the revert, which I wouldn't normally to do my pals. So, FYI for now. p.s. The blueberries finally bit the dust this year. Next year will try the idea of using barrels with new ones. Montanabw^(talk) 00:56, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

Well, I suppose so. In UK English "plastic" can have the same implication, but in this sort of instance, not: it would just be seen as a simple description of the material. "Vinyl" won't do for the title as that omits other plastics and it would be ridiculous to have a separate article for those, so if "plastic" has inappropriate connotations we need something else. I think "synthetic" would be readily understood in UK English, and in fact I think people would have to ponder a little to work out what "vinyl fence" meant, and would be very puzzled if it turned out not actually to be made of vinyl (and I'm sure consumer legislation would prevent it being sold as such). Incidentally, "PVC" and "vinyl" are the same thing (poly vinyl chloride), but other plastics can't really be described as "related materials", as that would imply similar chemistry, which they don't necessarily have. Richard New Forest (talk) 14:42, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

Hmmm. So if vinyl and PVC are the same thing, we really do cover about 90% of the synthetic fence market with the term. (excluding, I think, only nylon rope sold as "electro braid" and other brand names). Or do you know of other stuff? (crime scene tape?) Over here, "vinyl fence" is a pretty common term, pretty well understood in the equine community, anyway. Let me mull this over and maybe do some Google searches to see what, if any, industry standard there is... Montanabw^(talk) 23:12, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

A Google search on "plastic fencing" comes up with lots of PVC, but also quite a bit of recycled plastic. That can be PVC, but presumably may also be other things. Then there's hazard fencing (or barrier mesh or various other terms) – the orange stuff used on building sites and by roads. That's polypropylene or high density polyethylene ([1]). Electric tape and rope (like your "electro braid") seems to be polypropylene (and of course the stainless steel wire). Also nylon mesh ([2]), polythene electric fence stakes, plastic deer fencing (nylon, polypropylene [3]), polypropylene rails ([4]), fibreglass panels etc. Not sure which would predominate in the UK – don't think I've seen any of them used for agriculture apart from electric tape and rope, and insulating stakes. Horse fencing is otherwise generally wood and wire. Richard New Forest (talk) 13:35, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Above discussion moved from User talk:Richard New Forest#Fences stuff. Discussion arose after article moved to Plastic fence by Richard New Forest, and back to Vinyl fence by MontanaBW. Richard New Forest (talk) 16:38, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

There seem to be three obvious alternatives:

• Keep article at Vinyl fence. I think this is unsatisfactory because of the various other materials commonly used.
• Move article to Plastic fence. Would be fine for UK users, but unsatisfactory because of pejorative implication of "plastic" in US as discussed above.
• Move article to Synthetic fence. This term seems to be in fairly widespread use, and I think would be recognised by everyone. Doesn't have any pejorative implication I can see. Looks a strong candidate.

Any other thoughts? Richard New Forest (talk) 16:38, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Just for the sake of beating the topic to death, we could choose to be quite specific and call it polyvinyl chloride fence. This does exclude electro-braid made from nylon rope, but that is, arguably, already discussed in the electric fence article anyway. What other materials is synthetic fencing manufactured from, anyway? IS there anything else? I suppose we do have to also consider the non-livestock barrier fence stuff like this. But is that stuff also "vinyl?" (OK, where are the chemistry folks when we need them?) . Montanabw^(talk) 18:45, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Ahh, I can do chemistry too – no end to my talents (actually, what I learnt at school and indeed taught for a short while is all getting a bit vague...). The rail-type fences seem to be made out of PVC (vinyl), polypropylene, probably polythene, and whatever can be recycled. Netting is polypropylene, nylon or polythene (which is of course the same as polyethylene...). Rope, tape etc is polypropylene and perhaps nylon. Can't really see how one "thing" can be restricted to one material. Richard New Forest (talk) 19:09, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Then I'm good with synthetic fence if you would be so kind as to add a paragraph with the above chemistry explanations and wikilinks to the stuff so as to enhance the general understanding. My brain is too fried to do this (I just put up an article for GA, the first solo attempt I've done for about two years or more...am a bit nervous...) Montanabw^(talk) 21:03, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

If no further thoughts I'll move as per discussion above. Richard New Forest (talk) 19:23, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Synthetic fence?? Yes, I'm groovy with that. Montanabw^(talk) 22:28, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Yes, sorry, that's what I meant. Richard New Forest (talk) 11:52, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Okey dokey, go for it. Montanabw^(talk) 18:22, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

OK, done. Richard New Forest (talk) 13:16, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Kettling

Seems to lack relevance here. The so-called fence used by police, looks like mesh netting to me. A fence is a free standing structure. I'd suggest this section is removed. Danrok (talk) 18:39, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

Hm.. Well, mesh netting CAN be a type of fence actually, I'm thinking of deer fence, for example. I suppose we could get into what a definition of a "fence" is, particularly temporary fences. Montanabw^(talk) 20:05, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

The deer fence is a free standing structure, so I'd agree that is a fence. But, this kettling "fence" does not stand up, as far as I can see, it is just a wide net, held by police officers. You can see it in the ref. link here [5] Danrok (talk) 00:09, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, you're right, they are using it more like a net, I'd say. I'll pull it for now and pop it here in case there is a reason to pop it into another article. Montanabw^(talk) 06:18, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

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"Kettling" is the use of vinyl fences as a technique of crowd control to corral protestors as can be seen in videos of the Occupy Wall Street protests.

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References