Talk:T-Mobile myTouch 4G

Regarding Article Name

From the article history: On "04:30, 2 February 2011 Île flottante moved T-Mobile myTouch 4G to HTC Glacier over redirect: T-Mobile myTouch 4G is only used in the US, the exact product name is the HTC Glacier and its usage represents a worldwide view, rather than a solely American one.)"

"Glacier" appears to have been a code name or development name, not a product name. According to the HTC worldwide website, there is no product currently on sale under the model name "Glacier" - see [1]. I can not find any evidence that this phone model is currently on sale anywhere in the world outside the United States. Checking five HTC county specific sites in Europe and another five in Asia show no sign of a phone marketed under the name "Glacier". Additionally, there are no phones sold in other markets which have the same physical design as the T-Mobile myTouch 4G. Both Google and Bing searches show numerous references associating "HTC Glacier" and "T-Mobile myTouch 4G" together but there are no references to a phone which is being sold, marketed or receiving press coverage under the model name "HTC Glacier". I can't find any evidence that HTC will soon be marketing this phone in other markets outside the U.S.

"T-Mobile myTouch 4G" is clearly the correct title for the article at this time. If at some point HTC begins marketing this phone outside the U.S., then it may be appropriate for the article name to be something else. "HTC Glacier" titles the article after a name used only during development and that is not in line with the article naming guidelines in general nor is it in line with common practice for mobile phone articles. Ch Th Jo (talk) 06:46, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

(Edited for clarity.) Ch Th Jo (talk) 07:05, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

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Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: move all as nominated. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:35, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

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• T-Mobile MyTouch 4G → T-Mobile myTouch 4G
• T-Mobile MyTouch 4G Slide → T-Mobile myTouch 4G Slide
• T-Mobile MyTouch 3G Slide → T-Mobile myTouch 3G Slide

– The pages were moved citing MOS:TM, but it doesn't appear to support this move strongly, and the move cannot be reverted as the redirect was then edited. Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Trademarks#Trademarks that begin with a lowercase letter mentions tradamarks that have one lowercase letter followed by a capital letter, but this seems to fall under the same rationale, as it's the pronounced in the same manner and has the same stylistic capitalization as iPhone or eBay, only with two letters instead of one. This is in contrast to the example adidas, which is in all lowercase. --Relisted. ^walk victor falk ^talk 09:46, 8 April 2014 (UTC)Relisted. BDD (talk) 20:35, 25 March 2014 (UTC) Aoidh (talk) 06:01, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

Oppose – I moved the pages and find it proper under MOS:TM because this is a clear case calling for standard capitalization. The exception in MOS:TM is for trademarks that begin with a single letter pronounced as a separate letter, which is clearly not applicable in this case. ENeville (talk) 18:00, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

• The spirit of the rules and the intention behind them should have more consideration than a narrow by-the-letter interpretation, and it's hardly "clear" under MOS:TM, as the examples given do not properly reflect this situation (though the rationale behind the "one letter" would encompass this as an obvious exception). - Aoidh (talk) 21:39, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

"My" is a two-letter word. This isn't a case of "mTouch" pronounced emm-touch. I don't understand the comment about 'the rationale behind the "one letter" would encompass this as an obvious exception'. It seems like that logic would apply to all leading words, and negate the guideline entirely on that point. ENeville (talk) 15:04, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

The link to the talk page discussion shows that. Phonetically "i" and "my" are so similar that the difference is trivial, and the capitalization rationale is based on the use of phonetic pronunciation. Speak them aloud, do "iPhone" and "myPhone" sound so dissimilar? No. Do "iPhone" and "adidas" follow any similar pattern? Absolutely not. That logic would not apply to all leading words, nor would it negate the guideline by a long shot. - Aoidh (talk) 20:02, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

Comment: I assume the proposer intended the third move to be to T-Mobile myTouch 3G Slide rather than T-Mobile MyTouch 3G Slide [[2]], that looks like a typo to me. As to the merits of the cases, I personally prefer the look of the smaller m, but I'm not sure why and I think you can argue it either way from the guidelines. So it seems to boil down to a personal preference. Perhaps we could clarify the guidelines... but is it really all that important? Andrewa (talk) 23:44, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

You're right and I corrected that, my/My apologies. :) - Aoidh (talk) 02:24, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

No/no damage done! (;-> Andrewa (talk) 09:41, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

Support - The section of MOS:TM that ENeville refers to was written when only eBay and iPod were widely recognizable examples of trademarks that involve an initial lower-case character followed by an upper-case character within a word. The myTouch line was subsequently introduced (and is much less widely known). Taking that into consideration, the spirit of MOS:TM and WP:CAPITAL#Trademarks would seem to support using myTouch rather than MyTouch. And most RS for the past 3+ years use myTouch. Dezastru (talk) 17:49, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

It's not clear to me what spirit you're referring to. MOS:TMRULES says, "Capitalize trademarks, as with proper names." WP:CAPITAL#Trademarks says, "For trademarks that are given in mixed or non-capitalization by their owners (such as adidas), follow standard English text formatting and capitalization rules for proper names (in this case, Adidas)." The evident spirit of WP:CAPITAL and MOS:TM is not to defer to the trademark owner but to use standard capitalization, which would be to capitalize a proper noun, hence "MyTouch". ENeville (talk) 20:08, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Comment – Note that MyTouch, the article covering the overall line of equipment, capitalizes the "M". Certainly the articles on the individual models should conform to the style of the subsuming article. ENeville (talk) 16:32, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

That's a technical issue now solved by using {{lowercase title}}. - M0rphzone (talk) 03:25, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

• Support move - moving these 3 articles was unnecessary. Sources have always referred to the myTouch line with a lowercase m. - M0rphzone (talk) 03:25, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

I see that you changed the capitalization on MyTouch without announcement here even though discussion is ongoing. It would have seemed better to have incorporated discussion of that change here, even if you did effect that change by template. Otherwise, the implication would be that Adidas being capitalized is only a reflection of a technical error. Also, I offer the following examples of "MyTouch" in use:

• T-Mobile MyTouch 3G
• MyTouch 3G Review
• T-Mobile MyTouch 4G

ENeville (talk)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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