Talk:Tablighi Jamaat/GA2

GA Reassessment

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Starts GA Reassessment. The reassessment will follow the same sections of the Article. --Whiteguru (talk) 08:00, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

 

Instructions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Good_article_reassessment

 

Result: Delisted. Legitimate concerns, no opposition or improvements made; Matters raised in the reassessment were not addressed. These matters will remain valid until the next GA Review, whereupon they must be addressed first. --Whiteguru (talk) 01:32, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

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Observations

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

• References are acceptable in some cases, but generally not needed in infoboxes if the content is repeated (and cited) elsewhere or if the information is obvious. See WP:INFOBOXREF. This is the case, in this article. Kindly remove the references from the infobox.
• to return to practising their religion as per the Islamic prophet Muhammad, in the lede is not good grammar. Moreover, there is no point in placing "Islamic" in front of Muhammad's prenomial, Prophet. Drop the link to Islamic prophet, this article is not about the qualities of prophets, the article is about a missionary organisation restoring proper devotion and right living. Change to → to return to practising their religion as per the teachings of Prophet Muhammad See MOS:PBUH for first incidence of use of the Prophet's name.

1. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

• Reference 12 is a Youtube video. Youtube is not considered a reliable source. See WP:RSPYT for clarification. Linking to the Deobandi movement is sufficient in this instance.
• Reference 13 requires subscription. [[subscription required]] tag has to be added.
• The link to Ikraam-e-Muslim (Respect of Muslim), goes to Akhlaq (which is virtue, manners, ethics). This doesn't seem to be the same thing.
• Please clarify the link in Reference 22
• Reference 34 is not the actual lecture by Dr Eva Borreguero. Considered an unreliable source as this is a reporter's account of this presentation. To state that Tablighi Jamaat has 100,000 followers in France has to have a reliable source. As Tablighi Jamaat does not keep count of its membership this citation may well be dropped.
• The assertion cited in reference 35 is inadequate. Migration to the UK in the 1960's was an eligibility for Commonwealth countries only, not broadly South East Asia. See the a description of the scope of the Commonwealth Immigrants Act of 1948 To say that Britain is the current home of Tablighi Jamaat is absurd. There are three locations - Pakistan, Delhi and Bangaldesh that might make that claim. Sort this.
• Reference 36 is an unreliable citation and does not adequately represent Tablighi Jamaat in the UK. Tablighi Jamaat was not founded to “create such hatred for their ways as human beings have for urine and excreta”. Remove this reference, it is not any proper description of Tablighi Jamaat in any country.
• Reference 35 does not specify that Tablighi Jamaat adheres to Sunni Islam. Provide further clarification.
• A particular issue is using Ahmad as a reference, where pages 457–524 are cited as the reference. The reader should not have to plough through 67 pages to verify a claim or statement made in this article. All References citing Ahamd's 1994 work should specify the relevant page in the source, for the full source is available online.
• It is confusing to use the term ahadith, however acceptable it may be to Muslims. You need to make this article accessible to all readers. Change to hadith which is more easily recognised by non-Muslims.
• Reference 44 cites an article on Blogspot. However orthodox and correct, this is a user generated source, and must be removed. See WP:UGC commentary on blogs. Blogs are self-published sources. See WP:SELFSOURCE.
• The advert tag added at Six Attributes (Sifāt) was is removed as the six attributes are properly described.
• A reference should be given for [(Sahih Muslim 6466; 207-(2531) Darussalam ed.),
• Sahih Niyyah/ Ikhlāṣ gives reference to ibadah. Please explain this term (a note is acceptable).
• Organisation → keeps an introvert institutional profile → replace introvert with minimalist
• The first paragraph of Organisation is an excellent summary of the structure and processes of Tablighi Jamaat. There multiple, multiple references which state the matter in this paragraph. Well done.
• Reference 53 concludes that Tablighi Jamaat has disdain for religious tolerance, democracy, and separation of church and state. This is not a good reference to cite and is subtle vandalism. This reference is actually opposing the content of Reference 54, which says Tablighi Jamaat promotes inter-faith harmony, tolerance, human rights, social justice and peace. Drop Reference 53.
• → This 10 member shura committee consisted of Maulana Saeed Ahmed Khan Sb, Mufti Zainul Abideen, Maulana Umar sb palanpuri, Maulana Izhar ul Hasan, Maulana Zubair ul hasan, Miyaji Mehraab sb, Haji Abdul Wahab Sb, Haji engineer Abdul Muqeet sb, Haji Afzal sb and Muhammad Saad Kandhlawi.[55] This sentence is completely superfluous to this article. Remove.
• The following content is presumptive and not encyclopaedic in presentation: follow 5 Amaals in every day life, Taleem of Ahadees, Quran recitation, 6 Points muzakera, and mashwara for daily life work and fikr Supply links to or translations of the terms used.
• The citation to Reference 64 needs to be corrected. The correct citation is Tablighi Jamaat has been banned in some Central Asian countries such as Uzbekistan, Tajikistan and Kazakhstan, whose governments see its puritanical preachings as extremist. The governments must be referenced, not vague statements.
• There is a significant problem with the statement linked to Reference 74. Here is an instance of a Guardian reporter, speaking to an interpreter, and makes a statement about Tablighi Jamaat. Here is the citation: Asked about the association between Tablighi Jamaat and terrorist groups, he replied: "Tablighi is like Oxford University. We have intelligent people - doctors, solicitors, businessmen - but one or two will become drug dealers, fraudsters. But you won't blame Oxford University for that. You see, it does not matter if someone speaks in favour or against this effort. Everything happens with the will of God." This does not resemble the statement tied to Reference 74. Find something else.
• Reference 75 → this statement comes from an unreliable source: As per intelligence estimates, over 6,000 Tablighis were trained in HuM terror camps in Pakistan. Who made these estimates, what are they and what is the source? You don't include unsubstatiated statements from a newspaper reporter, no matter how prestigious the newspaper might be. Hearsay and estimates are not reliable sources. The next statement is also from the same newspaper item: → the Godhra train burning in 2002. This train burning has been laid at the feet of many organisations. How is it that something that is cited as suspected becomes an encyclopaedic entry? To cite these is vandalism. Obtain multiple reliable secondary sources; if not, drop these statements.
• Furthermore, Reference 75 is unreliable. It is not the original source but from a syndicated feed.
• Reference 80 is vague, it refers to Deobandis, Barelvis and Tablighi Janmaat and lumps all three into Hanafi-Sunnis. This is not a reliable reference. Cited for the same sentence, Reference 81 tells the complete opposite. Drop Reference 80.
• Law enforcement officials says is not good grammar. Checking the reference, the source is The F.B.I.'s international terrorism section. Change this.
• The citation for Reference 85 needs to be sorted.
• Reference 88 should link to https://www.theguardian.com/society/2006/sep/24/communities.religion
• In a foiled January 2008 bombing plot in Barcelona, Spain, "some media reports" stated that a Muslim leader in the city stated is hearsay and not admissible. Reference 8 cites some media reports and does not give source. Reference 90 uses the term purported. Remove this statement, it is not sufficiently sourced nor reliable.
• Tablighi activities have been banned in Saudi Arabia → a source is needed for this statement.
• Sukhdeo does not appear in the citations given for Reference 82. Locate the reference or remove.
• Reference 99 is a dead link. Use https://web.archive.org/web/20210518150826/https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/04/07/how-tablighi-jamaat-event-became-indias-worst-coronavirus-vector/
• Reference 115 is unclear. It does not give account of the stabbing. Drop it.
• Reference 116 has been contested as an unreliable source. The matter of 94 new cases in Hyderabad, Sindh, needs a new source or gets dropped.
• The statement attributed to Reference 120 fails verification. (the source does not say this). Remove it.
• The entire section India and covid and Janmaat suffers from WP:Proseline (they said, he said, they did , this organisation did that) Reduce this section to one paragraph and let the link to 2020 Tablighi Jamaat COVID-19 hotspot in Delhi carry the needful information. The entire matter of the courts is on the 2020 Tablighi Jamaat COVID-19 hotspot in Delhi page. It does not belong here.

1. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

• The statement about non-involvement in fiqh is a good inclusion. This paragraph (and its references) while admitting recruitment has occurred, effectively distances TJ from terrorism.
• Reference 32 states, inter-alia, European terrorism officials who follow Tablighi closely say they know many cases in which terrorists have emerged from the movement, but they say they have never been able to penetrate the group sufficiently to prove that it plays any direct role.

1. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

• The situation here is that many sources are biased against this organisation and many sources cited do not present an NPOV. The article does admit, warts and all, that there are security problems in other nations where disreputable organisations have used Tabligh to recruit members, move people to other soverign nations and so-called members have been intercepted with parts for IED's. There has been some subtle - or careless editing where deleterious statements are made about Tabligh then the opposite gets put in within the very next reference.
• The page may have to go under permanent semi-protection: see WP:SEMI

1. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

• Page created 13 August 2004
• Page has 4,542 edits by 1706 editors
• Page size = 108010 bytes
• IP edits = 1,697 · (37.5%)
• Last 90 days page views = 59,207 with an average of 651 page readers per day.
• During 2020,there were 687 edits, 146 minor edits and page protection was applied 3 times.
• Page watchers = 184

1. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

• File:2009 Malaysian Tablighi Ijtema.jpg = Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 2.0 Generic license. Captioning is appropriate.
• File:Biswa Ijtema Dhaka Bangladesh.jpg = Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Unported license. Captioning needs to include English translation, either (World Gathering) or Bangladesh gathering, like this.
• File:Principles of tabligh jamaat.png = Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 4.0 International license. Captioning is appropriate.
• File:Kakrail Mosque, Dhaka.jpg = Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Unported license. Remove "mostly" from caption. This image appears to be damaged. Are there not better images available of this mosque?
• File:Congregation of Muslim, Tongi, Bangladesh.jpg = Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 4.0 International license. Remove link in captioning, see WP:REPEATLINK
• File:Cot Goh.jpg = Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Unported license. Mushawara after Bayan Subh needs a translation.

1. Notifying Editors:

• The following are recent top contributors to this article.
• Editor Worldbruce
• Editor Andykatib
• Editor Kautilya3
• Editor CambridgeBayWeather
• A total of four involved editors were able to be notified. Updated, --Whiteguru (talk)

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1. Overall:

• It is clear that from time to time, some editors have added surplus references which state the opposite of existing references. This is a subtle form of vandalism.
• From a detailed checking of references, it is clear that this article has been sabotaged in many instances and the presentation of Tablighi Janmaat has been written down due the fluidity of the organisation and the transitory nature of membership and participation. This article needs to remain under constant scrutiny for this reason.
• This is big article, a lot of work has been raised in this reassessment. Three weeks for corrections. --Whiteguru (talk) 07:14, 25 June 2021 (UTC)

 

 On hold

 

Result: Delisted. Legitimate concerns, no opposition or improvements made; Matters raised in the reassessment were not addressed. These matters will remain valid until the next GA Review, whereupon they must be addressed first. --Whiteguru (talk) 01:32, 1 August 2021 (UTC)