Talk:Tachograph

Nothing to do with road safety

A few years ago on a visit to Australia I read that the Australian government had made a study of tachographs and had concluded that they had absolutely nothing to do with road safety. Does anyone know anything about this report and can anyone enlighten me on this subject please? Apgeraint 20:54, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Some australian document classifies as "Highest-impact action": "Develop a program of in-vehicle technologies to promote road safety, including: digital tachographs and GPS-enabled solutions for heavy vehicles, to support the implementation of speed and fatigue management reform" https://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/safety/publications/2008/pdf/ATC_actionplan0910.pdf

There is this 1986 Australian document in which (in page 81) NRFII condsiders tachographs are not intented to punish specific violation of safety regulations, but to ensure that safety regulations are observed www.aph.gov.au%2FParliamentary_Business%2FCommittees%2FHouse_of_Representatives_Committees%3Furl%3Dreports%2F1986%2F1986_pp114.pdf

A 1990 australian report, stand that: "The proposal to extend the use of tachographs to an enforcement tool is controversial. On the one hand, some argue (as the National Road Freight Industry Inquiry did) that they are not only a useful concomitant of a licensing system whereby all operators are required to keep records, but that such records should be available to licensing and enforcement agencies in order to make drivers and owners more accountable. In an enforcement context, evidence of speeds immediately before the vehicle was intercepted would be available, while in a crash situation, the tachograph would indicate vehicle speed at the time of the crash." "On the other hand, it is argued that they do not themselves prevent excess speed, but only enable speed to be determined after the event (e.g. after a crash, or upon subsequent inspection) (...) The (australian) industry is opposed to the use of tachographs for enforcement purposes for these reasons (Evans, 1990)." http://www.habitatadvocate.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/NSW-Heavy-Vehicle-Crash-Study-Final-Technical-Report-1990.pdf — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.185.253.2 (talk) 15:12, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

Adolf Hitler and the tachograph

About 20+ years ago I learned from an article (possibly in "Headlight" or "Truck Magazine") that tachographs were first used in the 1930's by Hitler's Germany as a result of trade union pressure. Can anyone tell me more about this? Apgeraint 05:20, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

It looks like tachograph were also used in 1902 [1]. That pages display a graph (diagramme in French) recorded with a "tachographe à enregistrement automatique de Horn" (Horn automatic tachograph recorder). That was counting round per unit of time for some kind of industry and not speed.

The difference between a tachypgraphe and a tachymètre was described in 1903 [2]: This text from July 1903 says: "1903. Grosszschocher-Leipzig. Circulaire n° 12 de la firme Th. Horn,

Ces appareils sont spécialement destinés à la mesure des vitesses angulaires, par exemple le nombre de tours d'un arbre de machine, la vitesse circonférentîelle des poulies ou volants, ou également des vitesses linéaires telles que vitesses des chemins de fer, tramways ou automobiles ; dans ce cas l'appareil, au lieu d'être gradué en nombre de tours, porte une échelle en mètres-seconde ou km.-heure.

Les tachygraphes diffèrent des tachymètres par l'adjonction d'un enregistreur qui permet de se rendre compte graphiquement des irrégularités de vitesses qui surgissent dans un temps donné. Leur application est tout indiquée pour la vérification du glissement des courroies, ou encore pour l'enregistrement du coefficient d'irrégularité des machines motrices. Ce coefficient est de la plus haute importance, par exemple lorsqu'il s'agit d'accoupler en parallèle plusieurs alternateurs. Les tachygraphes du Dr Th. Horn répondent à ce but par le fait qu'ils sont spécialement étudiés pour les irrégularités périodiques très rapides, et leur sensibilité est portée à son maximum."

This means that tachygraphe did not only count round per minutes but can also count speed in meter per seconds or kilomoeters per hour, making it usable in train, tramway and automobile, but that tachygraph differ from tachymètre by a recorder which provides a graphical rendering making visible irregularities occurring at a given time.

If you are interested by Hitler and you understand german, you can also read the section related to the years 1920s in https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tachograph . It should answer your question.

Plus, regarding "trade unions" in Hitler's Germany you might be interested to know that according to the BBC, The Labour Front (DAF) "was a Nazi organisation that replaced trade unions, which were banned. It set wages and nearly always followed the wishes of employers, rather than employees."

Translated from German

de:Tachograph

• Corresponding English-language article: Tachograph
• Worth doing because: The German is much more extensive than the English, which looks poorly translated and is barely comprehensible in places.
• Originally Requested by: Angr (talk • contribs) 12:42, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
• Status: Translation currently in Progress... --Ilithios 03:57, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Translated and integrated --Ilithios 19:01, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

• Other notes:
• Supported:

This article still needs some cleaning up. It still shows signs of translation from the German, and uses a confusing mixture of British and US terminology and spelling.

Since the Tachograph is an EU/EEA requirement, there are official English versions of the regulations which could be referenced and used as a source of the correct terminology.

Drivers' Hours and Tachograph Rules for Goods Vehicles in the UK and Europe http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_freight/documents/page/dft_freight_504543.pdf

Drivers' Hours and Tachograph Rules for Passenger Vehicles in the UK and Europe http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_rdsafety/documents/page/dft_rdsafety_504544.pdf

There must also be Irish ministry of transport documents in English, as well as EU documents in English.

• Spelling and usage examples:

"center" (US spelling) followed by "Analogue" (British spelling).

"Railroad" instead of "Railway".

"7.5 tons" all British and EU regulations are in metric Tonnes (= 1000 Kg), "ton" usually implies the British ton (approx 1016 Kg), which is no longer used officially. The German version of this article currently states "3,5 t", which is 3.5 Metric tonnes. The British document referenced above states "3.5 tonnes".

EWG = Europäische Wirtschaftsgemeinschaft = European Economic Community = EEC. This was a previous name for the EU.

"German high regional court". The German version is "OLG Hamm". OLG = Oberlandesgericht = State high court

"administrative official". "Verwaltungsbeamter" = Government civil servant.

"The EU regulation is as of 03-29-06 is still in negotiation and has not yet been announced." Is "03-29-06" a date?. If so it should not be in numerical format, as this is ambiguous and contrary to Wikipedia guidelines. "announced" this should be "promulgated". It obviously has been announced otherwise you wouldn't know about it.

"The Tachograph is being phased out in favour of the electronic log book which" Should be: "The analogue Tachograph is being phased out in favour of the electronic Tachograph which"

The reference to Hitler needs a citation. This is not mentioned in the German version, which states various dates for its invention between 1902 and 1925, and the law of 1952 which imposed its use.

TiffaF 06:34, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Advertising

I can't help but feel this part is someone trying to advertise their business. Especially when you look at the section where it's been added.

Tachograph Operations within the UK (Calibrations and Repairs) are regulated by VOSA, a Branch of the Dept for Transport. It takes a lot of planning to set one of these stations up, and hence there are not that many around. The newest such station has just been approved for carrying out repairs and calibrations in the town of Farnborough, in Hampshire ( D T C). It has been approved to carry out Analogue and Digital types of servicing.The chap that runs the place (Karl Khan) has been working within the Tachograph industry since 1988, and has a lot of knowledge about the working of the various components regarding the Tachograph operating systems.

I didn't want to delete it without mentioning it here. Smurf2050 11:31, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

I've removed it. Smurf2050 11:21, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

This page was heavily used for advertising links, which I removed. --Μάριος Ζηντίλης (talk) 10:33, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Tachograph in North America?

There is basically no mention of the use of Tachographs in North America -- USA and Canada. I know from personal ovservation that large commercial trucks in the US use some form of Tachgraph, but that would be OR which isn't allowed. I also know that US interstate over-the-road trucks were regulated by the old Interstate Commerce Commission and now by the US agency Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration and this included checking of mileage driven by a given driver over certain periods of time, but that knowledge is OR and not allowed without sources. This article would be improved if North American Tachograph usage was included by a knowledgeable editor with references. --TGC55 (talk) 14:45, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

• It's not just North America that's missing, there is only minimal coverage of anything outside Germany. It also needs more references, a good copyedit and expansion (none of which I have time for atm). Thryduulf (talk) 02:20, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

I do not understand the complaint. If tachographs are not mandated or used in North America how can this article cover the non-existent use? If they are mandated or used then the correct thing to do is add that information. As far as I know tachographs are not mandated in the USA and are therefore not used except if someone would voluntarily install them which is unlikely. Fleet operators may want to have certain information about their vehicles but each operator is going to arrive at a different solution depending on their needs and most would want real time positioning more than historical speed information so fleet operators generally go with GPS receivers which send the required information to HQ via SMS or similar solutions. The paper disk tachograph was mandated in Europe 25 years ago and is now pretty much obsolete and replaced by electronic solutions. This article reflects usage in not only Germany but in the EU where tacograph use is mandated. What I find surprising is that in the USA there is no actual control of the speed and the driving hours of huge trucks and of passenger buses which has been mandatory in the EU for 25 years now. Or is the use of tachographs or similar devices is mandated then someone could add that information to the article. GS3 (talk) 18:40, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

I have been driving over-the road (until recently) in the US and Canada for almost 20 years and have trained for several companies so have considerable knowledge of the trucking industry. There has been "tachograph" use in the United States for over 35 years. I had one on a D-6 Caterpillar bulldozer in 1975 to record operating time. I will have to explore this as it might have been referred to by another name. We called it a time recorder. In the trucking industry the equivalent of the tachograph is the electronic on-board recorder (EOBR) and although the FMCSA has required use on habitual violators (bottom 10%) the 7th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals (Aug. 26, 2011) vacated and remanded the rule (set to go into effect in June, 2012) back to the agency for further proceedings. According to the ATA's chief counsel, Robert Digges, "Although the court decision specifically addresses the 2010 final rule, FMCSA also will also likely have to bring into compliance its Jan. 31 (2011) proposed rule mandating that nearly all motor carriers equip their trucks with EOBRs".

Werner Enterprises (as well as others) have been voluntarily using on-board recorders for several years. I am in the process of working on the EOBR article and will look at adding information here. There appears to be a misconception, "If tachographs are not mandated or used in North America how can this article cover the non-existent use?", in that because something is not used or required does not mean it does not exist. This would mean that, "Or is (sic) the use of tachographs or similar devices is mandated then someone could add that information to the article", is not relevant. The name of the article is Tachograph not Tachograph use. The other side of the coin is that other than some mention to similarities this article is not about EOBR's.

Of a more expedient concern is the amount of original research in this article. An example would be the the Tampering section. The Digital tachograph#The case for tachographs section mentions the use of a magnet to falsify readings. This information is also in the EOBR article and both are unreferenced.

Concerning the statement, "... no actual control of the speed and the driving hours of huge trucks and of passenger buses", enforcement in the US is governed by the FMCSA and the hours of service driving rules. There are weigh stations all over the country, as well as DOT officers and state police certified to examine trucks and drivers. Since implementation of the latest hours of service rules the trucking industry has been showing year after year safety improvements. It amazes me that pilots (pilot and co-pilot) with a plane full of passengers have less restrictions than a commercial truck with team drivers carrying freight. While there are certainly exceptions many studies have shown that the majority of accidents involving commercial trucks are not the fault of the commercial driver. The penalties for violating the hours of service can be stiff and the new CSA 2010 program will eventually prove that violating companies will be shut down and drivers will not be able to find a job. Most of what I stated above could be considered OR but rest assured I have the references to back it up. I will be adding some of it to articles. Otr500 (talk) 02:19, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Merge with Electronic Logging Devices

Since Electronic Logging Devices is the known term in North America, it is important for it to have its own page. Just like EOBR, ELD should be defined. Feel free to link to ELD page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by FleetBeat (talk • contribs) 23:27, 23 August 2016 (UTC)