Talk:Taconic State Parkway/Archive 1

Archive 1

Mileage

HOW LONG IS THE TACONIC STATE PARKWAY? PLEASE ADD THE TOTAL MILES FROM BEGINNING TO END. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.190.127.44 (talk • contribs) 21:44, September 9, 2006 (EST).

I have mileage from the northern terminus to route 44 in Dutchess County. I'd be willing to post them if a column was created in the exit list table. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by DarkStarHarry (talk • contribs) 20:58, October 3, 2006 (EST).

Eventually, the table will get updated (if no one does it within a week or so, I'll take care of it) and it will have a mileage column all the way down. Until then, all I can say is hang tight, unless you get the urge to add a column yourself (be careful if you do so, the coding's a little tricky). --TMF ^{Let's Go Mets - Stats} 20:19, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

I filled in mileage from 84 to 44, those from 44 to 199 didn't add up, so the're there, but commented out. Those between 84 and 44 really should be confirmed.Dagorlad 03:28, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Junction list

I think some of the listed intersections, especially in Dutchess and Columbia, can be removed. We should not list all the local roads the road intersects, especially if there is no crossing access on the intersecting road. Include all the expressway exits for the non-expressway seciton, leave only junctions with state and county roads. --Polaron | Talk 04:23, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree, I'm not certain which are closed totally now, or just closed to cross traffic though. Next time I get up that way I'll take notes if no one else jumps in. Dagorlad 05:07, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Tompkins Corners

Although it's mentioned in the HEAR report, I still have a problem with the Tompkins Corners thing, to my knowledge, the only Tompkins Corners is in Westchester, near Millwood...

Anyone have other insight? I think, if I can't find any mention of it on USGS maps, I'll remove that bit.

Dagorlad 05:02, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Nevermind, found Tompkins Corners. Been through there too, it's a "don't blink or you'll miss it". Dagorlad 00:43, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Legion Drive

According to Google Maps, there is no longer an intersection between the Taconic and Legion Drive. There appears to be, however, an intersection with Valhalla Place to the southeast. Is it possible that the Legion Drive connection was replaced with the Valhalla Place junction? --TMF ^{Let's Go Mets - Stats} 21:47, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Google maps makes it look like there's three intersections there. There's only two, I'll double check the names. Have to get mileposts for those anyhow. Whatever the name, that one will also be a NB exit only.Dagorlad 23:36, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Traffic lights?

To me those seem to confuse things, by suggesting there are traffic lights at each grade crossing. There are not, although one or two do have flashing lights. I was try to think of a way to distinguish between the two. Dagorlad 23:40, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

As I said above the exit list, a light only means that the junction is not an interchange. We could simplify things a bit by removing all non-interchange junctions, but that seems a bit too drastic. Unless we want to indicate what junctions are interchanges and which are junctions (and taking up unnecessary space in the already large table), this is the easiest way to go. --TMF ^{Let's Go Mets - Stats} 23:43, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

I would prefer we remove at-grade intersections with local roads. We can leave all grade-separated junctions and at-grade crossings with county/state roads. This will make it more in line with other NY state highway articles. --Polaron | Talk 23:52, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree 100%. That'll help to reduce the size of the table as well. --TMF ^{Let's Go Mets - Stats} 23:54, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

This road is a strange case, pretty much limited access, but many lesser roads connect. That's probably the better way to go. Most that aren't county roads, aren't that noteable. I would keep the parks though, as they are closely linked to the road and it's history.Dagorlad 01:29, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree that it is unique; since it is a parkway, I disagree with removing those roads because it makes it a little confusing to follow along with the exits. In the state roads and such we list the major intersections, but in my opinion, any intersection with a highway/parkway is notable because it is an exit. bmitchelf•T•F 14:31, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Disagreed. The Lake Ontario State Parkway has several at-grade intersections in between two limited-access portions; however, only intersections with signed routes are listed on the page. It's no coincidence that the NYSDOT traffic counts omit most of the at-grade intersections in the list of junctions as well. --TMF ^{Let's Go Mets - Stats} 15:01, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Formatting

Please, someone, clean up the Putnam County section of the grid. I added all of the historic exit numbers, but I got extra grid markings for some reason. Peace —MuzikJunky (talk) 08:08, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Christmas 2009 cleanup

I have decided to spend this upcoming holiday period overhauling this article. It has GA potential if many issues (unencylopedic tone, duplicated history sections, inadequate description) are resolved. I have also found that the NRHP nomination has a lot of interesting information which I will try to add. Daniel Case (talk) 17:04, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Stub ends?

Amid some of what I've removed was a suggestion that at the north end, there is some physical remnant of the intent to continue the road north of that point. Does anyone know anything more about this? Looking at it in Bing Bird's Eye View, it seems as if the next mile west along the Thruway at that point was probably intended to be part of the continued Taconic (the Thruway gets wide at that point, more like the Taconic, without a good reason like a brook or pond in the median). And the overpass at Albany Turnpike Road near Old Chatham seems like a likely point of divergence ... the berm on that side is cleared and the road suddenly curves away from the Thruway that it has been closely paralleling up to that point, before crossing under it into Old Chatham. It does look as if an overpass was planned there for a road going more to the north.

But that's about it. If anyone knows more about these stub ends remaining, please add it (with sources of course). Daniel Case (talk) 08:02, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

The Taconic was proposed to reach Hoosick Falls. Intersecting with 66 at East Nassau, 20 at Brainard, 43 in Stephentown, 2 at Grafton, 7 at Potter Hill, ending at 67 in Buskirk.Mitch32^{(Live from the Bob Barker Studio at CBS in Hollywood. Its Mitch!)} 21:50, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

But do we have a source for this? In the NRHP nom the most detail about this is one of the TSPC commissioner's hopes to extend into Rensselaer County in 1946; there are no specifics on what the route would have been. I'd like to see this somewhere other than nycroads. Daniel Case (talk) 06:48, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

My 1959 map from General Drafting. That's what I just read off.Mitch32^{(Live from the Bob Barker Studio at CBS in Hollywood. Its Mitch!)} 14:06, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Do you have this cited anywhere so I can just copy the note, then? (Interestingly, I got to tour GD once when I was a kid). Daniel Case (talk) 17:51, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Photos to get ...

I have finally finished what I set out to do four weeks ago and will shortly be listing this for PR. Phew! Didn't expect to do this much work ...

Anyway, I think this could eventually make a good FA candidate. What it needs more than anything else are some more pictures, preferably taken in warmer weather, with beautiful blue skies and little fluffy clouds. The HAER pics are a good guide but I also think that something contemporary is best. I will try to get out there myself in a few months but

Specific sites

• The outsize "Wrong Way" signs at the Pleasantville Road exit, the legacy of Diane Schuler's accident.

• The descent into Peekskill Hollow (Difficult to find a place to get out of the car, the way I prefer to shoot, but I'm not giving up till I've made a good effort). It's discussed at some length in the text and we need something better than that 1940 grayscale pic HAER has. Readers need to see what it looks like now.

• The bridge there, given FDR's complaints about it.

• The Shenandoah Valley view from just south of the Miller Hill Road exit, one of the scenic highlights of the middle Taconic. The pic at the FWHA page is a good starting point but we can't use it. I think some scrambling around the roadside there will get us a good pic. There used to be an overlook there, after all.

• The view from the Ghent scenic overlook towards the Escarpment.

More general elements

• Some of the original soft curbs, guardrails or signposts (according to the NRHP nom, they are still some).

• Part of the section still paved in the original concrete.

• A storm grate in the roadway, to illustrate that part.

• One of the grade intersections in Dutchess County, preferably shot from the median in a way that makes it easy to understand the accident risks they pose (i.e., a good stretch of road visible).

• Congestion along the Westchester segments, illustrating its evolution into a commuter route.

Historical

• Photos of construction or opening ceremonies, preferably ones that can be more easily justified under fair use.

• Photo of FDR's drive to the World's Fair. If the White House photographers took some pics, they're PD. Perhaps check with the presidential library in Hyde Park?

• A map showing not only all the towns and routes mentioned but all the stages of construction and proposed routes. I can't imagine a non-New Yorker easily able to visualize this stuff. We'll see what the map lab can do.

That's all. Anybody with other ideas is welcome to list them here. Daniel Case (talk) 07:14, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Map

This really wants a map —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.92.1.58 (talk • contribs) 21:27, March 12, 2006 (EST).

Questions

When I was a kid, my family found out the hard way that campers were not allowed on the Taconic- is this still true today?

Might be, although I think the same change in traffic law that allowed pickup trucks might well also allow campers. Daniel Case (talk) 04:12, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

I guess this still needs cleanup to meet the standard, hopefully I added to the history and gave others more to build on. Should I include the 100/133 exit's movie role?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.124.57.113 (talk • contribs) 01:26, November 13, 2006 (EST).

Go ahead. Please place it in "Miscellanea", though. --TMF ^{Let's Go Mets - Stats} 20:19, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Technically, Hawthorne is a Hamlet, hence no local goverment, within the town of Mt. Pleasant. Should Hawthorne be eliminated at combined with Mt. Pleasant in the exit list?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.124.57.113 (talk • contribs) 03:53, November 14, 2006.

Sure. The hamlet of Hawthorne could be mentioned in the Notes column, though. --TMF ^{Let's Go Mets - Stats} 20:19, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm, not sure how this will work... Still getting my feet wet. Ok, the exit table is merged. It seems to me there are some minor crossings in Columbia Cnty missing though. Can someone fill those in (other end of the parkway for me, so I don't know it as well)? Also I see there's some sort of template for the exit list, should this be converted to that? Still trying to figure out how things like the county lines could be included in that. I also added a community list and I'll think about a route description. Still need to work on the history a bit more though. Need some pics too, I suppose I can see about getting one of the bridge(s) over Croton Lake. Another of one of the remaining gas station buildings would be nice, if someone up Dutchess way could get one...

BTW: thanks to those that broke what I added to a history section, I didn't like how long that was getting and it seemed to be in the wrong place.

What should be a feature pic?

That is a pic at the very beginning to represent an outstanding feature. I'd like to work in a pic of the original Croton Lake bridge, yet a nice view from one of the overlooks futher north would also have merit...

Untitled

Am I the only one who noticed that in the "improvements and reconstruction" section, one paragraph says that the road has below average accident rates and the next talks about how it has the second-most accidents in the state? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.193.201.250 (talk) 13:15, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Yes, because that's only what it says if you're reading superficially. It says the portion in Dutchess County is the second-deadliest stretch of road in that county, which is an interesting contrast but not inconsistent with the accident rate on the entire road being lower than the state average. Daniel Case (talk) 19:20, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Possible source

A lot of cn tags are added to the closing and redesign of various intersections. I've considered some possible coverage of these with topographical maps from Historical Aerials Online, like the one at Arthursburg Road in 1982. Then again, a lot of topographical maps on that site still claimed that Conrail ran trains on the abandoned Putnam Line in 1999. So it's not a perfect source, but it might be a good place to start. -------User:DanTD (talk) 02:37, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Fine—that's not my specialty. Daniel Case (talk) 03:58, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Starting point yes, reliable source, not really. Mitch32^{(It is very likely this guy doesn't have a girlfriend.)} 10:35, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Okay. But I noticed you posted Google News articles on Seven Lakes Drive, which is also where I got the one on Lake Welch Parkway. Were the ones for 7 Lakes easy to find? And Google Street View shows a lot of closed intersections and medians, but no dates. -------User:DanTD (talk) 12:19, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

You could try http://www.orthos.dhses.ny.gov/. The clock on the right-side toolbar is the "time slider" function, which would allow you to narrow it down to a few years.--Triskele Jim 16:38, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

That's not so perfect either, but I found a few interesting changes, like Bullethole Road in Putnam Valley, which didn't seem to be accessible from anyplace other than Wood Road. -------User:DanTD (talk) 18:07, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Resolved by removing the offending statements. The comments here imply that they can't be verified easily and/or reliably, and if they can't be verified they don't belong in the article. – TMF (talk) 21:48, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Also, the former exit numbers for northern Putnam County and points north will be removed soon if no sources for them are added. – TMF (talk) 22:04, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

I take it you've never seen old maps of the parkway. The County-specific exit numbers are legitimate, and you really shouldn't have eliminated the intersections with Lake Taghkanic State Park. -------User:DanTD (talk) 00:13, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

I have a few to source, gotta check the accuracy of each. Would be better if we can find them. Mitch32^{(It is very likely this guy doesn't have a girlfriend.)} 00:35, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Well, New York State Office of Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation has a map of Lake Taghkanic that contains the park entrances along the parkway, if you scroll down. There's also Google Maps Street View for contemporary images, and many of them contain obvious evidence of former intersections. -------User:DanTD (talk) 00:57, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

The only disputed issues seem to be the dates of these closings. -------User:DanTD (talk) 01:01, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Technically, the disputed issues also include the closings themselves, but if one reliably sourced the closing dates, they'd obviously be sourcing the closings as well.

No, I haven't seen maps with these old exit numbers. If I had, they would already be in the article as a reference. That's kind of the point behind the {{fact}} tags: if someone does have a map showing them, they can add the map to reference whatever numbers the map shows.

As for why these edits were made now: editors have been far too lax over the years in enforcing enwiki's no original research policy on the exit list. If this article is ever going to get beyond C-Class, the exit list needs to meet basic Wikipedia standards; that is, anything not verifiable with a quick glance at a map needs a reliable citation. – TMF (talk) 16:47, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

I have a couple maps that has all the Westchester ones I believe. The ones for Putnam on north I have to go through what I have. I know one map shows like the first three exit numbers. I can't source the dates of closings.Mitch32^{(It is very likely this guy doesn't have a girlfriend.)} 17:02, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

General Drafting did a good job of marking the numbers on its insets of the Lower Hudson Valley, and that's how I was able to source the old numbers in Westchester and southern Putnam. Also, I just checked out a 1950s GD map, and unlike the 1960s-70s maps its inset extends into southern Dutchess. I'll source what's shown there. – TMF (talk) 17:13, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

I believe if I am correct, Columbia County never had exit numbers in the first place, just like it doesn't have any mile markers. I would check those as well. Mitch32^{(It is very likely this guy doesn't have a girlfriend.)} 17:24, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Okay TMF, but have you also considered looking at some of the street view images of these intersections? I certainly wouldn't promise you'd find the dates of the closings, but you'd certainly find evidence the intersections themselves were there. BTW Mitch, did you come across any Google News articles about the Taconic? If not, maybe I'll look some up myself. -------User:DanTD (talk) 18:27, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Anyway, I looked at my maps, I can't find any that mark exits north of P3 unfortunately. Gotta find something., Dan, Taconic is not a focus of mine, the other parkways, which have well ignored articles, are. Mitch32^{(It is very likely this guy doesn't have a girlfriend.)} 20:12, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Milepost Editing

I am trying to add in missing mileposts, but I am unsure on whether to mark them based on the exit ramp or on where the two roads cross. What should I do? Thanks. CobaltYoshi27 (talk) 16:03, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 24 October 2019

Making some minor edits to the opening paragraph to make it flow better by putting the reference route information at the end of the paragraph instead of at the beginning. 68.160.217.229 (talk) 02:43, 24 October 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. NiciVampireHeart 09:43, 24 October 2019 (UTC)

Actually, I think I get what they want. And we probably should do this; MOS:LEADSENTENCE says "Be wary of cluttering the first sentence with a long parenthesis containing alternative spellings, pronunciations, etc, which can make the sentence difficult to actually read; this information can be placed elsewhere." which while it doesn't specifically address the issue here does, to me, seem to cover it.

I think we could put the boldfaced reference route number at the end of the graf ... Daniel Case (talk) 20:35, 24 October 2019 (UTC)

Pudding Street

At at-grade intersection is being replaced by an interchange but it is still open and will probably not close till mid-2020.--regentspark (comment) 17:45, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

TSP - 202/35 Intersection Note Inclusion

Hey there, I noticed that the page is currently semi-locked so I'm unable to edit this in directly. But could someone include a mention that both eastbound *and* westbound directions are accessible in exit 17A, even though it is signed to only mention 202 East / 35 East? For reference I'm a resident of Yorktown and 17A is the main method for commuters to access 202/35 in both directions, not just Eastbound. The small section of the BMP located through 17B isn't commonly used comparatively. Thanks! 108.6.183.254 (talk) 06:27, 1 August 2023 (UTC)