Talk:Take the "A" Train

Chronological order of events

I removed the following paragraph from this article:

Strayhorn composed the piece while a young man in Pittsburgh. He introduced the song to Ellington after he succeeded in making his way to Ellington's dressing room when Ellington was appearing in Pittsburgh, then showing Ellington how he would have arranged Ellington's own song "Sophisticated Lady", then performing "Take the A Train" for him. Ellington was so impressed that he called the rest of the band in one at a time to hear Strayhorn, then hired him on the spot, to begin work in several weeks when Ellington returned to New York.

My replacement paragraph is this:

Ellington hired Strayhorn in 1939, who set about studying Ellington's scores to learn his style. As Strayhorn became able to emulate Ellington's style more closely, he was allowed to take on more arranging. "Take the A Train" was composed by Strayhorn in 1941.

My source for this paragraph is History and Tradition of Jazz by Thomas E. Larson, which was the textbook for a "History of Jazz" course I took this past semester. Obviously the main difference between these two paragraphs is when "Take the A Train" was written. The first paragraph claims Strayhorn wrote it before he joined Ellington, and was able to show it to Ellington as a sort of "resume". Larson's book says that the song was written after Strayhorn had learned what he called the "Ellington effect", which was Ellington's arranging style, and that Strayhorn learned this style while working for Ellington.

Clearly there's a contradiction here. I took the liberty of commenting out the version I think is incorrect, since I have cited the source for mine. If someone has a source for the first version, perhaps we can work something out. —Bkell (talk) 04:16, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

From my talk page:

I'm the one who contributed that detail about Strayhorn's bold introduction of himself to Duke; I got it from "Lush Life: A Biography of Billy Strayhorn," David Hadju, Farrar Straus & Giroux, 1996. ISBN 0-374-19438-6. I can't cite the page because it's in storage and the libraries are closed today (and I swore off going to the library on this sort of mission). But I think the deleted passage should be restored. And thanks for being so careful in moving the old text to discussion.Italo Svevo 22:06, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

There is a Wiki page on Billy Strayhorn - any information not directly connected with "A" Train belongs there -- not here. Owen (talk) 02:55, 26 April 2008 (UTC)Owen

This on I Dreamt I Dwelt in Harlem *talk_page :

The opening bass chord line for approximately four phrases (which are then repeated) bears an identical progression to that of Take the A Train (Billy Strayhorn). Comparing dates, Strayhorn could have penned his melodic ditty above this base line after I Dreamt I Dwelt in Harlem was first played in a Glen Miller broadcast. It would have been a close few stray days to be sure. It is unmistakable to even any most casual ear; which mine just happened to be, listening to a rendition of I Dreamt I Dwelt in Harlem from The Delta Rhythm Boys.
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:I_Dreamt_I_Dwelt_in_Harlem
--Laurencebeck (talk) 10:56, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

Move to Take the “A” Train?

The title is almost always (album covers, songbooks, ect.) given as Take the “A” Train, with the A in quotation marks. Should we move the article? — Mütze 12:06, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

I was the one who added the "legend" part. It's quite obviously a legend, and, like most legend, I do not know if it's accurate or true. Reference to this legend can be seen on various sites, most notably here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/special_report/1999/04/99/duke_ellington/325798.stm

There is a Wiki page on Billy Strayhorn - any information not directly connected with "A" Train belongs there -- not here. As for the "legend, I'm removing all of that because it contradicts everything ever said by Billy Strayhorn, Stanley Dance, Mercer Ellington and the Duke. Owen (talk) 02:55, 26 April 2008 (UTC)Owen

Official song of NYC?

According to an official web site, http://www.ci.nyc.ny.us/html/records/html/newsletter/june2004.html "New York, New York" is the official song of the city.

Unless you can document otherwise, the statement should be deleted.

Jim Demers NYC —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.246.216.100 (talk) 02:29, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Compare With Chattanooga Choo Choo

On viewing "The Glenn Miller Story" on my local cable channel, having seen it it for the first time, ever, last week (I was never, ever interested in the late Mr. Miller's work, as I've found his compositions to be not so much Jazz as popular composition passing as Jazz), I wasn't aware until now that the lyrics of "Chattanooga CHoo Choo" were obviously racist\JIm Crow references. Of what little I discerned, I thought the utterances were "Pardon me, B-O-Y-S,\...is it right down the line, oh, won't you give me the time?" (As I said totally disinterested in Mr. Miller, unless I heard his works in passing.) Obviously, Mr. Mr. Miller was also an opportunist, in that, after he made his breakthrough composition "Moonlight Serenade", he sweated to sustain his popularity. One sure way to do this was by curriying favor with the racist white majority, especially in the South. Whenever Blacks in the U.S. came up with an innovation in entertainment, White, hostile and jealous of these, frantically sought out a "Great White Hope" who could hopelly trump the Negro at his own talent by mimicking him (no easy task, as many white band-leaders resorted to theft-as in the case of Paul Whitehead-where they were shown to not have had any great writing or arranging acumen; to say nothing of improvsational talent). I do believe that Miller was also sensitive to the fact that he might have been perceived as a "white negro", playing, and cavorting with blacks (E. Presley had the same concerns, ergo his hostile statememnts against the very peoples' music and culture he mimicked). As I said before,Miller was not a Jazz composer.

Another question arises that I wish others would start a discussion. Was Miller's adoption of "Chattanooga ChooChoo" a racist response to Billy Strayhorn and Duke Elligton's "Take the 'A' Train"? Of course, in the latter's lyrics, the compo was a homage to the popularity of Harlem, New York City, so I surmised that "Choo Choo" was a 'response song' to the former. The 'reponse song' was a staple of African American music in Jazz and, more prominently, Rhythm and Blues. One last obsevation: Though Miller's "Choo Choo" was awarded top honors among the ASCP's rating system. I see no corresponding recording for Ellington's "A' Train". Why is this? --69.119.72.13 (talk) 07:48, 5 February 2012 (UTC)Veryverser

Not sure what much of the point of that was, but "boys" was a common mode of address from one man to a group of men in informal contexts without any regard to race. I think that the racist "boy"-instead-of-Mr.-Tibbs type of address was used more often in singular than plural... AnonMoos (talk) 16:10, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

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