Talk:Tasmania/Archive 1

Archive 1

Anagram

Tasmania is an anagram of "I am satan". Andrew Harper told me that. Who's Andre Harper? You're not from Tasmania, are you.. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stib (talk • contribs) 05:43, 24 January 2003 (UTC) -- Well I am - Can we warrant an article on Harper?? I'll do the key Doghouse heckling dates :) - Jgritz 09:09, 22 March 2004 (UTC)

Forestry

FWIW, I agree with the reverts made by Jgritz today - the 131.* (Utas IP) user seemed to be a bit biased towards the Greens, especially if you look at the other articles he/she has created/edited today --Chuq 10:30, 22 March 2004 (UTC)

Would love to see more on the forestry issue here though. It is an issue integral to Tas Politics over the last 30 years. It also looks like being a big national election issue in Australia this year. Even in the British papers of late - http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,1174798,00.html - Jgritz 10:48, 22 March 2004 (UTC)

I just added a bit about logging and the Tasmania Together process. I think that because it is a controversial subject there should be infomation about it. Maybe there needs to be a section with controversial issues including forestry. --AFA 00:40, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

Quoll

Isn't there also a form of Quoll (spelt wrong?) indigenous to Tasmania? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.130.234.49 (talk) 09:22, 15 April 2004 (UTC)

That would be the Pademeleon, wouldn't it? Larsn 10:22, 9 April 2007 (UTC)larsn

No. A pademelon is a herbivorous macropod, while a quoll is a carnivorous dasyurid.--Meika 23:20, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

perhaps the "Tasmanian Devil"[1] of "Van Diemen's Land" Sarcophilus harrisii is indigenous to Tasmania, and similar in appearance and dietary habit to a Quoll [2], both are marsupial, 'Quoll' is spelled correctly, yet another English word that the almighty spellcheck is yet to learn :) ShearBlue (talk) 08:00, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

The Eastern Qoull is Endemic. Noodle snacks (talk) 11:09, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Formatting issues and changes

• Wikipedia:WikiProject New Zealand places

A Wikiproject about how best to organise regions, towns and cities. If you compare Tasmania with the other Australian states we have got a pretty good article although there needs to be some common formatting for all the states. --Lukeisham 02:13, 21 April 2004 (UTC)

• (Local Government Areas of Tasmania)

Personally I've been convinced by chuq, that the Local Government Areas of Tasmania page is the best way to list all the Tasmanian towns and cities. More general or less specific places could be simply added under the sub-heading of 'Regions' in the main article. --Lukeisham 02:13, 21 April 2004 (UTC)

Economics section

The Economics section needs major work, especially the unsupported quote at the start. Recent developments such as the building boom, a surge in tourism etc also need to be added. (I’ll do it my self eventually, if no one else gets around to it.) --Lukeisham 10:53, 24 April 2004 (UTC)

I have rewritten some of the economics section and thrown out a lot of the pessimistic, unsubstantiated garbage. - Bella July 2005 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.52.130.139 (talk) 09:53, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

Top 12 Pop Idol?

Do we really need links to Reality TV personalities? Haven't they had enough exposure already :) Also, as a Tassie boy living in the UK they have zero relevance to me and I doubt whether they have have any more historical context than the winner of the dance division B at the Devonport Eisteddfod. Top 12 in dodgy TV show doesn't belong on here IMHO. Jgritz 07:27, 7 September 2004 (UTC)

I agree. It would be more notable if Tasmania didn't have any top-12 contestants in a reality TV show. - Mark 07:40, 7 September 2004 (UTC)

Ah well, take it out if you like.. we just rarely get included so I thought it was good to list them when they *are*. Also note:

• Two of the three were winners of their shows. Regina was a big deal in the local media. Of the 50+ BB contestants this country has had, Regina has been the only Tasmanian (so we have a 100% win rate!). The premier even said it was all Tasmanian's duty to vote for Regina on Big Brother :/ The Mercury rated her winning BB notable enough for its History of Tasmania 1804-2004 specials this year.
• Amali probably isn't notable yet - although bear in mind that, as last year, there will probably be a single release by the top 12 Australian Idol finalists coming out soon. And (sadly) it will go pretty high in the ARIA charts.

-- Chuq 07:52, 7 September 2004 (UTC)

How about making a sub-heading called "Tasmanians In the News" or something. Then if they prove their worth they go into the "Prominent" list. BTW - this is a handy list for the future: http://messenger.imdb.com/BornWhere?Tasmania,%20Australia. I can still remember when Mark Stevens was the first Tasmanian on Young Talent Time...... Now THAT was news... Jgritz 11:24, 7 September 2004 (UTC)

Australia the country and Australia the continent

Somebody once told me that Australia (the country) includes Tasmania, but Australia (the continent) does not. Anything to say about this?? 66.245.74.145 22:28, 29 October 2004 (UTC)

In the following, remember that continent is a fairly ill-defined concept. I could list any number of 'continents' that have tectonic faults running right though them. I would argue that 'Australia the island' is a null concept.

• Australia the country definitely includes Tasmania.
• Australia the continent includes Tasmania, as it is on the same continental shelf.
• Australia the island (if there is such a thing) does not include Tasmania. (or Bathurst Island, Kangaroo Island, Bribie Island, etc). -- Chuq 07:47, 30 October 2004 (UTC)

Social Context section from main article

Pasted these here cause I don't know where they should go, but certainly not in the main article - Jgritz —Preceding undated comment added 08:44, 10 December 2004 (UTC).

Owing to it's isolation, Tasmania is the butt of jokes implying that incest is prevalent

You're from Tasmania? Give me six!

Many of these are unimaginative retellings of US jokes about Hillbillies (much as many Aboriginal jokes are word-for-word retellings of US Nigger jokes).

Tasmania brews two excellent varieties of beer - Cascade and Boags. One is brewed up north in Launceston, the other in the south around Hobart, and there is some north-south rivalry involved. If you're in Hobart, be sure not to drink the wrong one ... although I'm not sure which one that is. (It's Cascade in the south, Boags in the north. 20-or-so years ago there was a very strong brand loyalty with beer, but now there's so many different brands available it's not as noticable.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.66.131.10 (talk) 07:17, 14 December 2004 (UTC)

Owing to it's shape, "map of Tassie" is an Australian slang term for the female pubic region.

Politics and "over represented"

I reverted the phrase "is over-represented in the Australian Senate" back to "well represented" as it was changed some time ago. Tasmania has 12 senators, the same as every other state. If it had 13 and the others had twelve, then yes it would be over represented. If Tasmania had 7 House of Reps seats, that would be over represented (even though all other states have more than that).

Thinking about this, I don't even think "well represented" needs to be said, just "has 12 senators" would do. But I'll sit on that one for a while -- Chuq 07:09, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

The reason that Tasmania has 12 seats as do all other states (not territories) is so that each state is fairly and equally represented. If this wasn't the case Tasmania wouldn't really get a say in what happened in Australia at the federal level. Gloryify (talk) 06:09, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Tas Together

Can any one be bothered putting in a section on the Tas Together process? — Preceding unsigned comment added by AFA (talk • contribs) 00:42, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

Why bother with the Tas Togethe process? The government uses it to make out its listening to the community, but only implements things that it chooses. Old growth logging ending by 2003, FAIL. See what I mean? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.68.165.87 (talk) 10:41, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Unofficial Discover Tasmania site

I'm thinking that the unofficial Discover Tasmania site should be marked a bit differently or placed elsewhere - It's has a big green slant that isn't immediately obvious. Jgritz 11:48, 9 June 2005 (UTC)

I don't think its appropriate to even have it at all, it is a political site, not a tourism site. -- Chuq 12:07, 9 June 2005 (UTC)

If you look at it, you will find that it is more then just a political site. It has a number of links to various things in Tasmania. Besides which, if you just have the government sites, you are only having one side of the story for many of the things that are happening in Tasmania. As such I'll be putting it back, along with some other websites that I find around the place. --AFA 00:59, 12 June 2005 (UTC)

These links would be perfectly suitable if used inline and incontext. Check out Wikipedia:External_links. - "High content pages that contain neutral and accurate material not already in the article. Ideally this content should be integrated into the Wikipedia article at which point the link would remain as a reference." This article already reads like a bad tourism leaflet anyway, let alone becoming a link despository. Generaly I think we should have a politics of tasmania article, where we could thrash out manny of these issues that don't belong in the main article. Jgritz 09:06, 12 June 2005 (UTC)

Tas Governement Site Resources

FYI - I just noticed that the all Tasmanian government sites seems to be covered by this copyright disclaimer.

Apart from any use permitted by the Act, the State of Tasmania grants users of this site a licence (within the meaning of the Act) to download, print and otherwise reproduce the information for non-commercial purposes only.

Which means there is a vast resource available for use on wikipedia, especially the State Library pages. Hope this helps someone. Jgritz —Preceding undated comment added 13:21, 24 June 2005 (UTC).

Pessimistic

The economics section is woefully pessimistic. Tasmania has been booming for the last three to four years. Tourism is booming, property market is building and labour shortages are commonplace throughout the state. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.52.130.139 (talk) 09:31, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

No mention of the Tasmanian bridge?

Being a local I would have thought a ship destroying the only (at the time) major bridge spanning the Derwent river and sinking to its final resting place killing numerous people might have rated a mention.

Does anyone have any references to this disaster for publication?

BTW - To this day no traffic is allowed on the bridge when a large ship is passing beneath it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Askegg (talk • contribs) 03:43, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

You mean the Tasman Bridge? :) -- Chuq 05:28, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Sport

You have forgotten sport. Tasmania is the unique Australian State without an NRL, AFL or Super 14 team. What is the most important sport? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.104.162.224 (talk • contribs) 09:52, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Languages spoken

I don't see any information about which languages are spoken in Tasmania —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 147.83.59.114 (talk • contribs) 10:56, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Perhaps someone might like to explain 'WestCoast English and 'Lonnie English' and 'Hobart English' for our inquirer? :)vcxlor 11:14, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Outdoor/Wilderness Experience/Tour Businesses

Anyone aware of any articles on this category for tassie? Long standing businesses in tassie in this area are not mentioned in this article, just wondering if anyone has either started/stubbed or come across entries for wilderness air/ the macquarie harbour gordon river boats / etc etc - maybe an entry is worth it within this art under 'economy' as the post 1980's silent achiever? vcxlor 03:53, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Format problem on elevations in side template

In my browser (FireFox), the highest elevation info is split into two lines, with the highest location in the "highest elevation" row and the height of the highest elevation in the "lowest elevation" row. The lowest elevation, sea level, is not given. This seems to be due to providing the name of the highest peak to a template which has no provision for displaying the name of the highest peak. The obvious solution is to remove the name of the highest peak, but I want to know how others feel about this before doing so. StuRat 06:34, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Tasmania map

File:Tasmap.jpg

I have put together a possible map for this article as there are concerns about the old map's copyright status. By the way, these are well founded. I have determined that the old map (the lower of the two shown here) came from this webpage, where it says that it may not be reproduced without permission.

The new map is an OMC map, and according to the Generic Mapping Tools homepage, these can be considered free. Have a look at the upper map. It's quite comprehensive, a bit more so than the lower map except that it doesn't show roads (I could add those if needed). It's also quite big, being a composite of nine OMC maps. Kelisi 18:52, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Roads are definitely needed!!!!! SatuSuro 22:46, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

All right, then. I'll see what I can do. Kelisi 02:36, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

There we go: Roads. Kelisi 01:25, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

There seems to be no furious objection to this map, although there is also no enthusiastic endorsement. Nonetheless, I shall tentatively insert this map into the article and see what happens. Kelisi 21:09, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Well, what has happened is that a bot has come along and annihilated the old map so that you can't even see it anymore, even though the code is still there (or can someone else see it?). So, we've had our minds made up for us. Kelisi 18:29, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Map of Tasmania has another meaning. How about a picture of _that_ map? Hee hee hee!

Air quality

The following needs a proper reference. I moved it here since it has remained unreferenced for a while. -- Barrylb 09:52, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

"Tasmania is scientifically recognized as having the purest air in the world, with the CSIRO establishing and operating the World Meteorological Organization Baseline Air Monitoring Station located at Cape Grim in the far north west tip of the island. When the air monitored at the Cape Grim station originates from the open Southern Ocean region, measurements of many of the atmospheric pollutants are among the lowest values ever recorded. ‹The template Talkfact is being considered for merging.› 

The station is funded and managed by the Bureau of Meteorology, which jointly supervises the scientific program with the CSIRO division of atmospheric research. Samples are regularly sent to other laboratories around the world to ensure accuracy, as well as to participate in a range of cooperative programs.

See Tasmania's Department of Primary Industries, Water and Environment for more information, as well as the CSIRO."

If you do a search for 'World's purest air' on Google (without the apostrophes), and also a search for 'Cape Grim', you'll find a lot of listings for the same thing, saying that the place is recognized as gathering "Some of the world's purest air". I've not found anything, at least yet, that's I'd consider a definite source to say that the state has teh world's purest air. My thought would be leave it out as a reference, though - we already know we've got the best air here ;) ~Jaguar 15:34, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps you could place the paragraph back in the article but modify the line from "as having the purest air" to "as having among the worlds purest air" or anything similar. A source for this claim could be this Age Newspaper article [3] and I also found an Sydney Morning Herald article making similar claims. However so far I haven't been able to find an example of a source that could prove Tasmania has the 'purest air in the world' although I only looked for about 10 minutes. Kyle sb 04:10, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Should we mention it at all? It seems to be a claim that cannot be proven, and other places claim the same purity of air. Also - anyone in Launceston, back me up on this - in winter when most households have their wood heaters going, the air is anything but pure! And to put the final nail in the coffin is the Pulp Mill proposed for the Tamar Valley. --shiyoushi 15:45, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Climate

Is Tasmania's climate similar to England? When I was in England it seemed much colder than Tas. Kyle sb 09:02, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree. I live in Hobart and I am sure that there are only two incidences of snow in the city, some time in the 1980s and again on the 16th of August, 2005. 220.253.106.212 09:53, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

History and geography

I came here looking for information about when Tasmania became isolated from the mainland to find that there is no information in this article about either the history or the geography of the island! Clearly major omissions which need to be remedied! mgekelly 08:50, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Prehistory is the category you need - as it is before usually accepted eras that have human records. Try Australian prehistory, and at least leave Tasmanian history and geography to their slow provincial ways  :) SatuSuro

A Paragraph has been entered - your point was quite valid - :) SatuSuro 09:02, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

History

I am a little surprised that there is no section for the history of Tasmania. I recognise that the convict era is covered extensively by the article on Van Diemen's Land, but I find it odd that there is not even a cross-reference link from this page. Would I be treading on any toes if I put one in? I'm sure there is more to the history than it's founding as a penal colony, and I was hoping to find out about it. --King Hildebrand 16:09, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

I have now found that there is a separate article on the History of Tasmania, so I have put in a link to that, too. --King Hildebrand 16:23, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Aboriginal Name?

More than a simple placement (or excision) is needed here - where does the word come from? mainlander or tasmania - and it needs a source, not just from the ether to be able to stick in this far too regularly vandalised article SatuSuro 02:04, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Abel Tasman named Tasmania I am quite sure 220.253.107.86 11:13, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Emblems

In the table, emblems isn't working but I don't know how to fix it, can someone help? Nitchell 07:59, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Unsigned/incorrectly placed Place question

places in Tasmania...Shipstern Bluff anyone??? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.169.99.131 (talk) 13:01, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

I haven't heard of it - is there something special about it? -- Chuq 00:28, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Just some of the most spectacular surfing waves in the world. This was a well kept secret for many years, but now you can read all about it. GB 21:34, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

There is nothing in the geosciences database for Shipstern anywhere in Australia. Ships Stern only in Queensland. SatuSuro 02:57, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Repeated Pointless Vandalism

Is there a point where this article needs to be semi protected? SatuSuro 10:19, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Fate of Tasmanian aboriginals

Doesn't the fate of the Tasmanian Aboriginals deserve more of a mention than just a link to the article Tasmanian Aboriginals? After all, from an international perspective I would hazard that this is one of the most notable, if tragic, aspects of Tasmania's history.Ashlar77 20:55, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Tasmanian Culture

It strikes me as strange that where culture is mentioned, we have no reference to Tasmanian visual artists, musicians, composers, musical groups (including the Tasmanian Symphony Orchestra) or the many other cultural areas in which Tasmanians excel. I think that this section needs to be extensively revised. What do people think?Wellingtoncat 20:55, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Common complaint on all australian state articles - due to the interests of and average age of editors I suspect - in most case they have very limited knowledge of the culutral heritage in their states. SatuSuro 12:22, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Agree with SatuSuro - its a case of systemic bias (see Wikipedia:Countering systemic bias). I can't think of many notable Tasmania's artists, maybe Peter Dombrovskis, Alan Moyle as photographers; The TSO as mentioned is an obvious one; Monique Brumby is really the only modern musician of national note; writers Richard Flanagan and Margaret Scott. I am not aware of any others, but that says more about my range of knowledge than anything else! -- Chuq 00:40, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Big problem is that things come and go - there is fashion inculture - the problem is the obsession with contemporary big names - I can think of at least 10 historians of Tasmania that deserve articles (oh If I ever had the time), then history of Uni of Tas - then the poets, the puppetteers, the novelists. I might get around to a sandbox outline for Tas - but I have a long overdue for the same for Perth, WA. I lived on the west coast in the late 1970's - I am convinced most editors on wikipedia were born long after that date! SatuSuro 02:27, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree that there is the problem of "things coming and going" in culture, and I suggest that in no situation is this more obvious than with sportsmen and recording artists. Both subject to coverage by the mass media, both subject to the whim of popular opinion. I think you're right SatuSuro, It has to be carefully considered why someone should be mentioned. Thanks for your list of notable Tasmanians Chuq!

I suggest that we need paragraphs covering: Visual Arts, Music and Performing Arts, Literature, and Indigenous Culture (Although let me be the first to admit I don't know anything about Indigenous culture so I have no idea what should be included nor where this should fit into the article). I would also suggest some other preliminary additions: Composers: Peter Sculthorpe, Kitty Parker, Don Kay, Constantine Koukias; Dancer and choreographer Graham Murphy (former head of the Sydney Dance Company); Actor Errol Flynn; Painters John Glover, Geoff Dyer (Recipient of the 2003 Archibald Prize); and Tasmania's pre-eminent Wilderness photographer Olegas Truchanas (Dombrovskis' mentor). I recognise that there are many others to be mentioned including early settler and convict painters, composers and poets.

There is also The Southern Gospel Choir (Led by Andrew Legg - An Aria Nominated group, recorded with EMI and with Artists including Guy Sebastian). I'm not sure if people see this fitting in to this section. It is certainly popular within the state. (Wellingtoncat 22:31, 7 December 2006 (UTC))

I should point out List of Tasmanians here as well, by the way! -- Chuq 23:05, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Chuq! I have updated the list! (Wellingtoncat 02:13, 8 December 2006 (UTC))

A good test would be Candle Records, Nick Armstrong, Ian Paullin, record shops of the 1970's - Tas Free Press, and for the reall oldies - the Sydney Sparkes Orr case? (which is an article but had no Tas Category with it) Tas History is not just environmental or old buildings - . Or the state film theatre in the 70's or the tas puppet thatre in the 70.s, or the theatre in education people of the 70's but the easy 'heritage things' people cannot easily packaged are the intangibles - the scandals and human weirdness of some of the awkward bits of Hobart and Tassie history - although richard (flanagan) and nick (shakespeare) do catch bits. As I say most contributors are born after these things happened - and do their parents tell them - I dont think so. SatuSuro 05:21, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

9+83

The Culture section is shaping up very well now, at the same standard of better then the other states of Australia. Knobbly 02:26, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Tasmanian Genocide

I don't like the wording of the new addition to the article about killing all of the natives - but it's accurate, I can't argue with that. Any thoughts? MojoTas 22:30, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

I have moved it about, reworded, and added a link to Black War which has more details - what do you think? -- Chuq 23:27, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Nicely done. MojoTas 02:18, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Tag box

• New Zealand has a tag box at the end of the article for topics about New Zealand. This makes their article alot cleaner and acts as a mini portal. We need one!! _{(Delete this comment once this has been completed.)} Knobbly 03:44, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Comments page tidying

• This comments page needs a good tidy before it gets too large._{(Delete this comment once this has been completed.)}Knobbly 03:44, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Economy: Poppy industry

Maybe consider added this: Tasmania is the world's largest producer (about 50% world wide) of opium alkaloids for the pharmaceutical market and has the highest alkaloid yield of about 9.3 kg/ha [4]

-ChristopherMannMcKay 00:40, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Deleted discussion

I didn't think there was a problem with the link to "the article on that other site", I think comparing this article with other sources on the same topic is a valid discussion. Anyway if people want to continue the conversation, a similar/related conversation is at Wikipedia:Australian Wikipedians' notice board#Dude.2C_where.27s_my_country.3F. -- Chuq 02:05, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Very well. Restored below. Hesperian 02:35, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Tasmania at Conservapedia, a bit of a laugh.

http://www.conservapedia.com/Tasmania

(All quotes are from http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Tasmania&oldid=54126 )

"Tasmania is a small Island, and state in Australia. Its population is approximately 1 million and its capital, Hobart, has a population of just over 400 000 people."

"Tasmania joined the Australian federation in 1900, a move that was not supported by a significant minority of the voting population. In 2004, a referendum to leave the federation was only just defeated (it required a majority in both houses as well by voters and failed to gain a majority in the upper house)."

Don't you love the Encyclopaedia that no one (unless you are registered, and you can't register) can edit?~AFA ^{(Fuck you!)} 02:41, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Funny or not, you shouldn't use Wikipedia talk pages for your own commentary. Talk pages are for discussing the Wikipedia article, preferably in a constructive manner. -- intgr 15:53, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Ditto to the comments of intgr- as it stands this reads like a spam link. --VS ^talk 23:47, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Tasmanian Separatism

While I agree the conservapedia link etc above does not belong here, and AFA wasn't contributing to discussion about the article, it does raise the point that in our article we don't even mention the significant separatist movement gaining ground in Tassie. I don't reckon theyve got a real chance of success, and media reports have treated them as a bit of a joke, but with thousands of members maybe they rate a mention?Humanproject 23:21, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Are u serious? Those idiots are just a bunch of unAustralian bogans, with too much time on their hands. Just cos there recruiting aggressively and getting attention doesnt mean theyre notable enough to be in Wikipedia. It makes me sick hearing the rubbish from their campaign - we'd gain nothing from independence! and what if the fanatics turn it into something like Northern Ireland? No thank youTazchook 23:46, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

You will want to remain civil in your comments; as noted above, Wikipedia talk pages are not for venting your feelings on a topic — they are for discussing the article. -- intgr 00:00, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for that Humanproject, that's great, except for the minor fact that there is no separatist movement (and if there is, no-ones heard of them). If you have any links, please do tell. -- Chuq (talk) 03:20, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm glad you haven't heard of them, and I'd appreciate it if they were not publicised anywhere! Tazchook 22:18, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

My edit

I was looking through this article and found that there was a climate section but no geography section. I thought this was quite odd since in almost all other articles I know of, the climate section is usually placed after the geography section. Doing some investigation, I found that it had been removed along with the history section almost exactly a year ago today. The next editor to come along simply removed the vandalism rather than reverting it. I replaced the history section that was there before at this edit with the July 2006 version and made no attempt to merge the contents. As far as I can tell, the history section from July 2006 is much more comprehensive than the section before my edit and there is very little information to merge. I did however change the main article template about Tasmanian aborigines to point to the correct target. I put the geography section back without modification. Graham87 13:14, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Ocean names

Interesting article. I corrected only one facet (that was correct in the map, but in error in the text) upon which Australian WP editors (or WP editors from any actual locality) do not have an "authoritative leg up." Australians, perhaps unfortunately due to the common usage on Australian maps, no more "get to decide" the name of the oceans of the world than do the people of, say, Chile, who refuse to use "Pacific" and have their own name for it on all their maps. The group that does is the IHO (see the WP Southern Ocean article for references....this article should not be cluttered with IHO references, I should think!) .

For good or bad (bad if you're a fan of Australian maps and terminology), they have decided that Australia is a continent sitting in the Indian Ocean, with the Pacific along its eastern side. They publish this with carefully delineated borders for these water bodies (see that mentioned in the WP Great Australian Bight article. So, certainly not for Australian use, but for a worldwide English enclopedia, its "Indian Ocean", not "Southern Ocean." The IHO very clearly ruled (after a vote of member nations) that the "Southern Ocean" stops at 60 degrees south, and north of that its the Indian Ocean. Not debatable, unless you want to try to overturn the worldwide and WP-wide acceptance of the IHO as the authority on these matters. Water bodies that Australia does not share with other nations are a different matter, of course. This is how world geographers (and the IHO) avoid having several names for various sides of various oceans. Having done the South Coast Track in Tasmania and looking southwest off the cliffs (an amazing place; huge old growth trees, remote beaches) and saying something to a local about the big Indian Ocean waves and getting an incredulous stare, I know this doesn't make sense locally.....But it's an international encyclopedia.DLinth 19:05, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Can you access ....

... "Judo player lands sport award" from here. If so can you summarise the main content, please? TerriersFan (talk) 15:47, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Population

I recently found the population of 497,312 on the Mercury Website. http://www.news.com.au/mercury/story/0,22884,24399940-3462,00.html sportsdude (talk) 06:47, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Next time add it as a reference since you know how to add them, it's not up to other editors here to find/add sources to content you add and have been warned about sourcing. Bidgee (talk) 07:41, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Article

I've just started a re-write of sections of the article. I've just finished the Climate and Geography section. Aaroncrick (talk) 03:07, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Comment on Tassie Aboriginies

It seems a bit barbaric to be referring to 'full-blood' and 'half-blood' Aboriginals as though the people with Aboriginal heritage born there and who live there today there today aren't really Aboriginal. Maybe the term should be 'original Tasmanians.' Mdw0 (talk) 06:11, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

There is a fair bit of discussion and confusion about who is an aborigine to the extent that the government legislated a definition as part of the Aboriginal Lands Act. The full-blooded terminology is quite well established a reasonably useful and easy distinction... Anyway substituting 'original Tasmanians' would basically be the same thing but just different terminology and less obvious in meaning... Barrylb (talk) 09:55, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

It was quite well established by the white people, many of whom would never think to say someone was one eighth-caste European. Just because its easy and useful in some respects doesn't make me feel any easier using it. How do the Tasmanian aboriginals feel about the term? Do they have aword that differentiates between original Tasmanians and the later Aboriginal people? There has to be something better - English is far too rich to allow such casual use of a term like 'full-blood.' Mdw0 (talk) 07:16, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

I suspect aboriginals have adopted the term from whites, but I am no expert. This page use this term 'full blood': http://www.tasmanianaboriginal.com.au/liapootah/palawa.htm and the site claims to speak for the "Palawa Aboriginal People of Tasmania". This ABC radio interview transcript has a mainland aboriginal person describing himself as 'full blood': http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/8.30/lawrpt/lstories/lr311001.htm -- Barrylb (talk) 09:30, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Population estimate

Is it just me, or do other users think that we should quote the ABS's September '08 population estimate of 498,900 [5] rather than some obscure December '08 population estimate from the premier's office [6]?--Just James ^T/C 10:01, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

• Put into perspective, the difference is less than 1% between the two figures. Noodle snacks (talk) 10:37, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

I would rather use the official A Bureau of Stats data. the premier's approximation is 0.22% higher than the ABS figure, and is rounded. Just imagine the difference if 1,100 Melbournians landed in Hobart overnight! ShearBlue (talk) 07:48, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Just go with most recent govt figures.

Braka (Tasmania) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Braka (talk • contribs) 11:54, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Cuisine: (curried) scallop pie?

Apparently (& arguably, I guess) Tasmania is the only state with a recognisable state dish. Though presumably it wasn't invented in Tassie, would it be worth mentioning anyway?--Tyranny Sue (talk) 07:49, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Area discrepancy

Can someone please sort out the discrepancy between the area of the state as stated in the article on one hand, and the sidebar on the other? Koro Neil (talk) 16:42, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Nature Parks and Zoos in Tasmania?

Hello.

I am wondering if there are any Wiki articles for nature parks and zoos in Tasmania.

In December 1998 I fed a kangaroo on a school trip, and am trying to remember the name of the park. I think it may have been near Claremont, because we went next to get some chocolate at Cadbury's.

--Bronwyn Gannan (talk) 05:19, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Hello.

Just letting you know that the park you are after is most likely Bonorong Wildlife Park. See http://www.newnorfolk.org/~bonorong/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.147.182.25 (talk) 19:28, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

• Agree - that is the closest to Hobart, and has also been running for a long time. Noodle snacks (talk) 11:10, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

A few issues—this article needs serious work

• The caption for the infobox map is a bit lame: it implies that the other states and territories are at least named on the map. Otherwise, the map is really about Tassie in relation to the other ...", isn't it?
• The caption for the caravan pic is not good. Do I see the whole state? Expecting a google earth pic from the 19th century ...
• I've copy-edited the lead; there is still a strange emphasis on local government areas and what is included in the Hobart area. The lead needs to prepare readers for the topic as a whole, so you might consider removing some of that and replacing it with a summary statement a few sentences long about the history (including the fact that it was a British colony until 1900 and then joined the federation?), and possibly something about the economy. There are many more important things to include in the lead.
• Can this awkward clause be fixed so the pipes are not misleading ("hidden")? "Through war, persecution and the introduction of ...". [See the "exercises" link below for the solution under Part II.]]
• "by a small party sent from Sydney, under Lt."—is there a section link that would be more useful? The Sydney article is rather general. "History of Sydney" article section dealing with these times?
• Overlinking: wind? apples? sheep? captivity? hotel? train? Are they suddenly technical? The linking is generally poor, esp. deceptive links and targets that could be more specific. Try these exercises?
• MoS breaches all over the place.
• Needs much more copy-editing.

Not much to be proud of yet. Tony (talk) 08:20, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Agreed! However, all state and territory articles are poor.Aaroncrick (talk) 09:17, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Victoria is not too good. The other states a little better. Haven't looked at the NT or the ACT yet. Aaron, are you in a position to work on this one and do you know of other regular editors who might be able to as well? There's no particular rush, though. Tony (talk) 09:51, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Yeah I could. Well, there are no other regular Tasmanian editors anymore and I gather that the main WP Aus members would rather fix up their own state/city first. Aaroncrick (talk) 20:10, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Nah speak for youself ... all is not lost (yet) SatuSuro 09:24, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

European Red Fox

This does not deserve a whole section in the state article, It should be no more than one sentence, there are heaps of other introduced animals causing nuisance or not, such as fish, cats dogs rats or deer. Fork or spin off European Red Fox in Tasmania to its own article. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 23:21, 17 January 2010 (UTC) The Red Fox section contains several misleading statements: The Eastern Barred Bandicoot is not extict on mainland Australia, small populations still exist in the wild and in captivity. This animal is listed as endangered on mainland Australia. To suggest the Red Fox is responsible is incorrect, habitat destruction such as the removal of 95% of native grasslands is the primary cause of the Eastern Barred Bandicoots survival plight. Domestic and Feral cats and dogs, grass mowing, fire, poisoning and generally mans interference has led to the serious reduction of Bandicoot numbers. The Red Fox has certainly contributed to the loss of Eastern Barred Bandicoots but is only one of many factors. The Eastern Quoll is not officially listed as extinct, sightings still occur on the mainland, however, none of these sightings have been confirmed in recent years. To be officially confirmed extinct any animal under the guidelines of the IUCN must be unconfirmed through sightings or hard evidence (road kill etc) for a period of fifty years. Diplodwatcher (talk) 23:43, 23 January 2010 (UTC) There is no such animal as Rufus billardieri, the Pademelon or Rufus wallabies scientific name is Thylogale billardieri.Diplodwatcher (talk) 23:57, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

I have addressed some of the above issues with the content of the section. Incidentally IUCN guidelines no longer specify a fifty-year period for an extinction to be declared; that requirement was abandoned in 1990. Therealsleepycat (talk) 05:49, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Table in Climate

Is that meant to be mean maximum and mean minimum temperatures? Noodle snacks (talk) 07:59, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Yeah. —Aaroncrick (talk) 08:58, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Locked

Due to the ongoing edit war, I've fully protected this article indefinitely. Please discuss your grievances here and I'll unprotect when you have a resolution. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 03:44, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

This lock is regarding the reference to a Hobart 2020 Olympic bid. Until such a bid is adopted by the AOC or state or federal government, it is no more than a small group of people who are proposing it. There is no credibility and it does not belong on Wikipedia. Barrylb (talk) 04:38, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

A small group of people who have formed a committee, have support from within the government and have even attracted potential sponsors. It is quite significant that it has achieved this amount. Block the editing from it permantly, but it will be sooner rather than later until it will be needed to be added again NYC 55david (talk) 05:46, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Unless a tangible source that specifically identifies parts of the bid process this is all conjecture, regardless of the editors comment have support from within the government and have even attracted potential sponsors - unless verifiable 3rd party sources outside of the initial joke origins of this dea are offered as evidence for WP:RS it remains not added. Simple as that. Try understanding what WP:NOT is about before using wikipedia as a WP:SOAPBOX for an improbable future event SatuSuro 07:46, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

• I've unlocked the article. I note that one of the parties has since been indefinitely blocked by another admin. Please be aware that further edit warring will result in blocks. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 13:51, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Simon Currant

Anyone know anything about the background of Simon Currant, Tasmanian tourism guru and former Tasmanian of the Year? His honorary Membership of the Order of Australia tells he can’t be an Australian citizen, but everything online talks about his work in Tassie and nothing else. -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 04:45, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

InfoBox

Charmander? Golden ninky (talk) 13:24, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

False statements

The statement "With its rugged topography, Tasmania has a great number of rivers, with almost all dammed at some point to provide enough hydroelectricity for the entire state's needs" is incorrect. This is stating that a majority of Tasmanian Rivers are used for hydro-electric power generation, which is false. It would be accurate to say "several of Tasmania's largest rivers are used for hydro-electric power generation" or "catchments supplying hydro-electric power stations cover a large proportion of Tasmania".

The statement "As the island has been volcanically inactive in recent geological times, Tasmania has many rounded smooth mountain ranges, making it the most mountainous state in Australia" is a logical fallacy. A lack of volcanic activity might lead to rounded smooth mountain ranges, but a lack of volcanic activity is not what makes Tasmania the most mountainous state in Australia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.179.247.230 (talk) 04:15, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Highest for the Greens in any parliament?

It states that 18% by the greens is the highest for the greens in any parliament. Deppends on deffinition of parliament. Kalix is a municipal in the north of Sweden. 2002 the greens got 43.6% and 17 out of 41 seats in the council. Last election it got 18.7% of the votes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.163.87.105 (talk) 19:09, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

If a municipal in Sweden works the same as one in Australia, then no it doesn't count as a parliament. I don't know the definition of a Swedish municipal, but a municipal in Australia is a regional council (local government). Anjwalker ^Talk 06:14, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

Tasmanian Devil

How comes my entry for Taz (Warner Bros character) got deleted? He's a Tasmanian Devil, therefore he's from Tasmania. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Biblejohn (talk • contribs) 15:50, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Marsupial lawns

Recently came across relatively new article (Marsupial lawn) which says that marsupial lawns are commonly found in Tasmania. However, the Tasmania article section on soil says it has dry and infertile soil where marsupial lawns are described as containing a moisture content greater than the vegetation around it. The Marsupial article is highly orphaned and I would like to include a link to it from here. Any thoughts? Wmcscrooge (talk) 01:16, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Blackman Bay

The entry had Blackman's Bay as the location where Tasman landed, with a link to a Wiki on that topic. Blackman's Bay is a seaside suburb in Hobart whereas it was Blackman Bay near Dunalley where Tasman landed in 1642. Someone drew my attention to this error and when I looked at it appears someone had removed the 's', thus breaking the link with the Wiki. I removed the Wiki link so that it now just appears as "Blackman Bay" in plain text. Rupert Gerritsen (talk) 16:25, 15 July 2012 (UTC)Rupert Gerritsen

Hobart meetup

There is a Wikipedia Hobart meetup happening on September 8th. Everyone is welcome - for more details, see the box on the right! -- Chuq (talk) 02:47, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed

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Tas or TAS

Should it be Tas or Tas? I think it should be TAS. NickGibson3900 (Talk - Cont.) 02:21, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

Apple Isle

Why is Tasmania nicknamed the Apple Isle? Is it because they grow apples? Or the geographic shape of the island?? Or is there some link with New York City??? A citable reference would be great. Norman21 (talk) 13:06, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

I found out why, and inserted a paragraph at the end of Soil. Norman21 (talk) 11:54, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

Auto writes - Thanks, Norman. I started at the top. I saw no reference to 'Apple Island' (or 'Isle'). Again thanks!.

Auto - 2233Z, 04 October 2014.81.159.208.88 (talk) 22:33, 4 October 2014 (UTC)

Geography of Tasmania

I just noticed that Geography of Tasmania was converted into a redirect to here in mid-2013. It should clearly be its own article, if anyone wants to add it to their to-do list ... just mentioning here because the fact that it isn't a redlink may cause people to not notice it is "missing". -- Chuq (talk) 10:55, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

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Yes! I am monstergoos!monstergoos of tasmania! I like! Look like! Why because? Cause is a diferentes england! More beutyfull! Bye! Why because? 👽👾 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Monstergoos (talk • contribs) 13:58, 9 July 2016 (UTC)

Removal of demonym Taswegian

I propose the removal of the demonym "Taswegian" on the basis that it is not used by anyone but a few queer individuals, and many Tasmanians consider the term pejorative. Dukenemesis (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 20:03, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

I agree, for the two reasons you mention, (i.e. not common, and when used, is usually as a put-down). Carlroddam (talk) 04:56, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

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Has the main island of Tasmania ever been officially documented as "Tasmania" since the Federation of Australia

Can you please settle a debate we are having at home; We understand Tasmania is a State, but has the main island of Tasmania ever been officially documented in Australia since Federation as the island of "Tasmania". We do realise it has been called Tasmania globally and colloquially.

Just some background, my GGG Grandfather George Mason came out to Hobart Town from London in 1836 on the privately owned 8 crew 2 gun sloop "Vansittart". They shared the harbour for 12 days with the HM Beagle with Cpt Fitzroy and Charles Darwin on board. The Vansittart was subsequently bought by the VDL Govt as a revenue Cutter, before being seconded to the HM Beagle in 1842 to assist in charting the Bass Strait, hence the name change of "Gun Carriage Island" to Vansittart Island in the Flinders Group. :-) Astronumismatics (talk) 00:50, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

Van Diemen's Land was the original name used by most Europeans for the island of Tasmania. The name was changed from Van Diemen's Land to Tasmania in 1856. As for whether it has been "officially documented ... since Federation as the island of Tasmania", I cannot say. --Dukenemesis (talk) 01:19, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

References

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Excessive Tasmania people

There are excessive names of people in the notable Tasmanian people section. This should be pruned by about 80%, with the entries left for the list article instead. I think we only need the people who will still be famous after 20 years, so most musicians and writers can be cut. What do others think? Graeme Bartlett (talk) 23:28, 26 June 2018 (UTC)

The nicknames aren’t accurate

Hey I’ve lived here Since I was born I haven heard of Tasmania ever being called either The Apple Isle or Holiday Isle Comxeno (talk) 08:14, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

Probably because you live there! :-) Holiday Isle, Apple Isle, and plenty more... Laterthanyouthink (talk) 10:16, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

Or because you are young. Tasmania used to export apples to the UK before they joined EU and the government paid orchardists to bulldose apple trees. Before 2020 there used to be many tourists in Tasmania too. (Now there may be a high population of non-working people, but they are not really on holiday.) Graeme Bartlett (talk) 22:54, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

'Tasmania: The Apple Isle' and 'Tasmania: The Holiday Isle' were used by Transport Tasmania as the tagline on most Tasmanian numberplates issued in the 1980's and 1990's CraigRat 25 July 2021

Insularity

Hello all

I have removed some highly speculative and controversial material from this section and replaced it with brief factual and neutral information. Specifically I have removed:

"A talented and diligent hydrographer, Cook quickly surmised the likelihood of a strait. The Admiralty had issued its usual verbal instructions to hide strategically important discoveries that could become security risks, such as off-shore islands from which operations could be mounted by a hostile power. Consequently, in his journal Cook disguised his discovery with a riddle; and on his chart he drew a curtain across the truncated channel by sketching a false coastline down to an invented Point Hicks. Cook's cartographic fabrication worked and Tasmania's insularity was suppressed for three more decades."

There is no evidence that Cook discovered Bass Strait but hid his discovery. Cook's relevant journal entry for 19 April 1770 states that it is "doubtful whether they [ie Van Diemen's Land and New Holland] are one land or not." No document has been found indicating that the British Admiralty knew of the existence of a strait between Tasmania and the mainland before Bass's discovery in 1797. It is highly unlikely that the Admiralty would have let Phillip and Vancouver sail to Australia without telling them about Bass Strait if they knew about it. Happy to discuss. --Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 07:33, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

Additions up to snuff?

I have been adding to some of the sections, and was just wondering whether it is excessive, or inappropriate for the article. --Mairremena (talk) 02:49, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

Just wondering (again)

...whether there is any way to make the article (beginning) look more "Tasmanian", or identifiable in some sort of pictorial way (without changing the flag...). Perhaps something to do with the state colours? It's just not quite the article to say "have a look at this entire submission, it's special and not any old state with a British flag on it!". (This is just my opinion). Also, would it perhaps be better if the location map of Tasmania (and by extension the Australian states and territories) were based on a globe rather than a flat projection? --Mairremena (talk) 00:18, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

I added a scarf with the state colours at the bottom of the infobox. I'm not sure how intrusive that is. What are some areas in this article that require additions, and what would help increase the quality of the article enough to rise (in Wikipedia quality)? --Mairremena (talk) 02:22, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

tasmania state name

Aboriginal names describing a region are not applicable when used in conjunction with tasmania, which is a state. A state is: "a nation or territory considered as an organized political community under one government." Due to the lack of government and political community being associated with aboriginal names for tasmania, they should be removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.32.1.85 (talk) 05:49, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

As mentioned on another article you have edited incorrectly, please familiarise yourself with Wikipedia's guidelines.

You must be new here - Wikipedia has guidelines which allow for Alternative Names with specific reference to 'historical names, and significant names in other languages', the guidelines do not differentiate article naming conventions in the way you suggest - while that may be a relevant definition outside of Wikipedia, a population definition does not apply here. The names you are referring to are correct within Wikipedia's guidelines, not only are they formatted correctly as per Wikipedia's guidelines (eg. in parenthesis, specifying the known & cited historical language and no more than two alternate names), they also present a Neutral Point of View and satisfy Verifiability as they are sourced correctly with historical and reliable sources (literally journal entries from historical explorers). The Alternative Names should not be removed as they are correctly used under Wikipedia's guidelines. Edit warring is however against the policies, please refrain from doing so as there are penalties as listed on the Edit warring policy page. GadigalGuy (talk) 12:06, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

Vandemoniam?

My Australian friend says she has never heard of Tasmanians being referred to as Vandemnians. Is it really useful to include humorous (and apparently obscure) demonyms? Davidleidner (talk) 19:15, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

It's not used much in a contemporary context, but it was widely used in colonial Victoria to refer (disparagingly) to ex-convicts transported to Van Diemen's Land who had migrated to the newly-founded Melbourne. The term was the title of a book by historian Janet McCalman. --Canley (talk) 04:41, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

Was the Indigenous population "wiped out"?

From the lede: "The Aboriginal population is estimated to have been between 3,000 and 7,000 at the time of British settlement, but was almost wiped out within 30 years during a period of conflicts with settlers known as the "Black War" and the spread of infectious diseases. The conflict, which peaked between 1825 and 1831 and led to more than three years of martial law, cost the lives of almost 1,100 Aboriginal people and settlers." If there were more than 3000 individuals, the death of 1,100 (including settlers) wouldn't about to the total genocide being described. Would it be possible to add some clarity here? Were the Indigenous "full-blooded" population transported away from Tasmania? Totorotroll (talk) 09:55, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

That detail is probably not for this article. Many others died from diseases apart from the conflict. But see Aboriginal Tasmanians for more on this topic. Some people alive today are descended from these people, perhaps 6 generations back. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 12:50, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

Bruny Island white Kangaroos

Stumbled on this info on Tasmania and wondered why I didn't see anything on the white kangaroos of Bruny Island. A must see in Tasmania. 50.104.77.155 (talk) 11:36, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

incomplete "sentence"

in chapter 'Stereotypes':

"A mentality developed in certain corners of Australia, and led to a general dislike of Tasmania amongst these people, even if the opinion-holder had never properly visited."

This certainly isn't a complete sentence?

Anyone able to rewrite/reorder that whole chapter? 94.134.203.232 (talk) 06:53, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

I can read it as a complete sentence, though a pretty poor one. It's unsourced. The source at the end of the next sentence doesn't relate to either sentence.The whole paragraph is rather terrible. I propose deleting it. HiLo48 (talk) 07:18, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

I support deletion. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 07:45, 28 September 2023 (UTC)