Talk:Tel Aviv University

[Untitled]

It was suggested that this article should be renamed Tel Aviv University. The vote is shown below:

The official name is Tel Aviv University, NOT Tel-Aviv University. See their website. It is located in Tel Aviv, NOT Tel-Aviv. gidonb 22:20, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

I agree. DirectorStratton 00:46, August 2, 2005 (UTC)

Thank you, DirectorStratton. That means we have a consensus. gidonb 03:05, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

But the move did not work. I do not have sufficient rights. I will leave it to a moderator to execute the name change. Whenever one feels it is appropriate. gidonb 03:09, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

Can't we just copy the page information and leave a redirect? DirectorStratton 03:44, August 2, 2005 (UTC)

Then the edit history will not be associated with the edits. Don't worry, at some stage a moderator will come along. If no one will in about a week time, I will call one. gidonb 06:29, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

This article has been renamed after the result of a move request. violet/riga (t) 09:22, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

On the other hand, the official name in Hebrew does have a hyphen in the name of Tel Aviv...

Fair use rationale for Image:Logo-tel-aviv.jpg

Image:Logo-tel-aviv.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 06:20, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Why?

Why do you delete my edits which mention the fact that the university was established on the ruins of an ethnically cleansed Palestinian village. This is a historically proved account by many prominant historians, including Israeli historians like Ilan Pappe. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.179.157.58 (talk) 19:06, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Because you smell :-/ TFighterPilot (talk) 21:01, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

@TFighterPilot: living in denial is a mental disease

reverting my edits

The article as it now stands sounds like gibberish. What is an on-site university? Universities have a student population - they don't teach xxxx students. Encyclopedias don't insert sentences like ("in no particular order"). This article is substandard by all accounts. Whoever gave it a B rating doesn't know what's flying. Listing faculties and departments is not an article. There is no content, apart from promotional material to "attract" overseas students. Since when does a university receive "autonomy" from a municipality? This article needs content. There is plenty of work to do, apart from reverting my edits.--Gilabrand 19:10, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Sure, it may not be a great article, but that doesn't mean you should start deleting content.

"On-site" means the students study on-site, as opposed to the Open University (which has more registered students, mostly because a people spent much longer times studying for a degree, and many just take a few courses).

"in no particular order" - Yea, okay. You could have just removed that (as I did right now).

"autonomy" - see here. okedem 19:59, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Whoever wrote that stuff for the website doesn't know English either. Municipalities don't grant autonomy to universities. Maybe they are saying that the university was built in a suburb that is outside the jurisdiction of the TA municipality, or something of that sort. But so what? It is a piece of non-information. There are more important things to say about this university. Kadima, la'avoda. What is the university best known for?--Gilabrand 20:21, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

I suppose they meant independent status (giving the university jurisdiction over some municipal issues, such as building licenses). The university was built on an area under Tel-Aviv's jurisdiction.

What's it known for? I don't know... Left wing academics (i.e Tanya Reinhart, etc)? It has a great Physical Chemistry department, that I do know. okedem 21:24, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Logo-tel-aviv.jpg

Image:Logo-tel-aviv.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 06:59, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

by the way - http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:Logo-Universtaet-Tel-Aviv.svg looks much nicer... --79.226.25.206 (talk) 12:28, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

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Adding and linking nationalities/citizenship in list entries

@2604:2000:E010:1100:68A0:D758:F52B:2D8B: See the rest of the notable faculty list and similar sections on other articles. Including nationalities or immigrant communities is an unnecessary level of detail not typically included in these sections unless it is the reason why they are notable. Furthermore, linking something like American-Israeli in a list entry is a textbook example of MOS:OVERLINK. — MarkH₂₁^talk 23:06, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

@2604:2000:e010:1100:68a0:d758:f52b:2d8b: Stop trying to assert your point through reverts. Use this talk page discussion.

Most university articles do not list nationality/citizenship and none of the other entries in this article do either despite a substantial portion of them not being originally from Israel. — MarkH₂₁^talk 01:39, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

I've looked at hundreds, no - thousands - of lists of people on the project. It is completely normal in a list in an institution in one location, or in a list of people from a location, or in a list of people in general to - if the nationality of a person differs from that of the location -- reflect as much. You have not provided any policy that indicates otherwise, and your personal preference is at odds, as I expect you know, with thousands of such pages.

Furthermore, overlink applies to "United States". But not to "American-Israeli". That's clear from the MOS that there is a distinction that you are not being sensitive to. Please take another look. I did.

Also - please don't template me, when I made a different edit, compromising in part just not to spend my life arguing with someone on the internet about something so trivial, about the three revert rule. It is not appropriate.

Also, most of names on this list don't list year of birth. Yet that is certainly no reason to not do so. It is the same with people who are not simply Israeli. That's a poor argument on your part. Again - we need only look at other lists. Or think. Use logic. "Is it helpful?"

Finally, please drop the "it is unnecessary" argument. Nothing is necessary here. Zero. It is not even necessary that one article be written. The question is whether it is appropriate - or instead violates a policy. It is appropriate, and violates no policy. --2604:2000:E010:1100:68A0:D758:F52B:2D8B (talk) 01:48, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

There are definitely not thousands of lists of notable alumni/faculty that include nationality/citizenship/origin. Look at List of Harvard University people, List of Princeton University people, List of Massachusetts Institute of Technology faculty, List of Stanford University people, List of University of Cambridge people, List of École normale supérieure people, or any of the other prominent examples and see how they generally do not include population descriptors even for foreign alumni/faculty. Even within this very article, there are dozens of people not originally from Israel who do not have their nationality, citizenship, or origin listed.

Besides his status as an American-Israeli not being directly supported by an RS in the article Bob Griffin (basketball) itself as required by WP:V (you would need an RS saying what his citizenship is, otherwise it's an WP:OR assumption based on his birthplace and later residence), past nationalities generally wouldn’t even be mentioned in the lead of the article per MOS:ETHNICITY, let alone list entries in other articles.

MOS:OVERLINK literally includes nationalities and ethnicities (e.g., English, British, Chinese, Turkish, African-American, Hispanic) as examples of overlinking, and in this case the link American-Israeli does not help someone understand the article you are linking from and is usually not linked.

If you strongly believe that this nationality should be mentioned for this list entry despite it being unreferenced, different from the other list entries in this article, and different from how other university alumni/faculty sections, then we can bring others in. But to put it simply, there is consensus to not mention ethnicity/origin/past nationality etc. unless it is directly related to notability in general, even in main biographical articles (MOS:ETHNICITY). There is even less of a case to do it for lists in other articles. — MarkH₂₁^talk 02:10, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

You have not responded to most of my comments.

Please explain the fact and your understanding of the rationale for reflecting the nationality of the individuals on this birth list.

Nobody brought up ethnicity. Why are you speaking to ethnicity?

I would respond to your comment on lists not saying what they properly could reflect at times, but in addition to the fact that there is no deadline, I see you have not responded to my above comment on that very point.

You earlier deleted him from the faculty list. Saying there was no evidence of that. I pointed out that there was. You never apologized for your misstatement.

I've added among other things this support for him having been an American who also became an Israeli citizen under Israel's Law of Return.<ref>Michael Bar-Eli and Yair Galily (January 2005). [https://www.researchgate.net/publication/272291090_From_Tal_Brody_to_European_Champions_Early_Americanization_and_theGolden_Age "From Tal Brody to European Champions: Early Americanization and the 'Golden Age' of Israeli Basketball, 1965-1979"], ''Journal of Sport History'', 32(3): 401-422.</ref>

You are cherry picking. Not reading the MOS in full. Leaving out the most important parts. It says:

"A good question to ask yourself is whether reading the article you're about to link to would help someone understand the article you are linking from. Unless a term is particularly relevant to the context in the article, the following are usually not linked: ... The names of subjects with which most readers will be at least somewhat familiar. This generally includes major examples of: ... countries (e.g., Japan/Japanese, Brazil/Brazilian) ... nationalities ... (e.g., English, British, Chinese, Turkish ...) ... However, try to be conscious of your own demographic biases – what is well known in your age group, line of work, or country may be less known in others."

Obviously, "American-Israeli" - which has a wikipedia article - is not a MAJOR example of a country or nationality. It is not English, British, Turkish, Japanese, Brazilian. And if you go to the article, you will likely learn something about that segment that you did not know before." Stop ignoring the word, italicized in the MOS, "major". It is there for a reason. Respect it. Please.

And please explain why you would seek so energetically to delete it. I don't get it. Countries of the person's nationality are in the January 1 article on births -- what do you imagine for?2604:2000:E010:1100:68A0:D758:F52B:2D8B (talk) 04:49, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

What have I not responded to?

Looking at other university alumni/faculty lists shows that it is inconsistent to include extra details like origin/nationality/citizenship or date of birth. It's not useful for the context of the article about the university as a whole - the wikilink is there for learning more about the specific individual alumni/faculty.

Ethnicity isn't what's being considered here, it's just the convenient shortcut for the link MOS:ETHNICITY to the section about ethnicity, nationality, and citizenship in biographical articles.

Yeah, I missed the sentence about Griffin having been faculty at Tel Aviv University in my initial edit. It's a mistake and it's been resolved.

American Israeli is not even an example of a nationality or citizenship but a specific demographic subgroup, so it has even less reason for being included. Just because the MOS does not explicitly exclude including demographic subgroups does not mean that we should include it. The MOS does not say anything against listing each person's height either but that doesn't mean that we should include it in this article. Neither Griffin's height nor his demogaphic subgroup are significant to his notability. In any case, I'll open a third opinion request to resolve this minor dispute quickly & efficiently. — MarkH₂₁^talk 04:17, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

Third opinion request

The above dispute stems from this edit and is about whether details about nationality, citizenship, origin, or demographic subgroups should be included in list entries (e.g. American-Israeli for the entry:

• Bob Griffin (born 1950), American-Israeli basketball player, and English Literature professor

Furthermore, the dispute also considers whether listings should include date or year of birth. — MarkH₂₁^talk 04:21, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

I suppose a third opinion on the first part of the question above has now been given by SMcCandlish here. — MarkH₂₁^talk 03:18, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

I would add that it's a rare university, outside of some closed-border despotic state, that doesn't have multiple faculty members from other countries. The specifics of that have nothing to do with their notability or encyclopedic merit, with the notability of the institution, or anything else. It's just trivia. The article on the academic is question is where to get into their citizenship and other details, as background information.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  03:27, 4 December 2020 (UTC)
PS: "Just because the MOS does not explicitly exclude including demographic subgroups does not mean that we should include it" – This is more of a WP:NOT#INDISCRIMINATE policy matter, really.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  03:29, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

@SMcCandlish: Thanks for the input! Any thoughts about including years of birth (or birth & death)? I don't see them as being particularly relevant either, but it could be more useful context than nationality or demographics. Years when the people were at the university would provide that context in a more direct manner though. — MarkH₂₁^talk 11:52, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

I don't feel strongly about it. We use dates in (biographical) disambiguation pages a lot, and that's a form of list (but it's also between people with similar names, so the rationale for the dating is different). This isn't the kind of thing there would likely ever be a rule about, since the utility of dates in a particular circumstance might vary. E.g., an executives list for a company only 7 years old probably doesn't need anything like that, but a list of all notable Oxford U. professors, ever, would be very thick, and cover a quite wide span of time. Two extremes, with most things being in the middle. "Up to editorial discretion at the article", basically.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  23:37, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

I agree with that general principle (although I still think that for university articles, years at the university would be more useful than lifespan). This is probably an example where we should just use years at the university. — MarkH₂₁^talk 02:21, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

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Incomplete Overseas partners list

Hi folks, I'm not at all familiar with how to talk on a wiki page or embed a source in the article. Just letting you know that the list of TAU's overseas partners is incomplete, and I know at least Columbia also has a partnership with them. Rosypotatoes (talk) 04:30, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

https://tau.gs.columbia.edu/content/about-dual-degree-program Rosypotatoes (talk) 04:31, 18 September 2024 (UTC)